thavoice;1470358 wrote:

But damn.....if he had just listened to the 911 operator who told him to stop following the person.

This is factually incorrect; the operator never told him to stop following the person. The quote was something along the lines "you don't need to do that."

While not a perfect analogy, when somebody pays for the entire table's dinner, the common response is very similar (e.g. "you don't need to pay for it"). I've never heard anybody try to say that it was a command not to pay for it.

Yeah, in court testimony, apparently Martin found out he had a gun after they had been on the ground and he reached for it.

thavoice;1470381 wrote:Maybe not when he was following him....but when they got close and **** hit the fan I bet that he knew

I think you are reaching. You act like Zimmerman was walking around like some gangster, brandishing his gun and growing balls. Zimmerman is an adult, with a family. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - he may have confronted TM (which is perfectly fine to ask someone you don't recognize), but I'd stop short of assuming he's walking around like Officer Hardass.

The more reasonable assumption - lacking evidence to the contrary (and arguably against) - is that TM reacted like a typical teen punk would, even to merely being asked who he was and why he was there. Probably only compounded if TM believes he's being racially profiled.

Sorry dude, 9 times out of 10 the teen kid starts that fight. And it's a real longshot to think Zimmerman is flashing his gun and so TM thinks his only choice is to fight.

That fat bitch who took the stand probably egged him on to do something too. Wouldn't be surprised if she said something like "don't let him talk to you like that" and egged TM to confront him.

gut;1470399 wrote:I think you are reaching. You act like Zimmerman was walking around like some gangster, brandishing his gun and growing balls. Zimmerman is an adult, with a family. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - he may have confronted TM (which is perfectly fine to ask someone you don't recognize), but I'd stop short of assuming he's walking around like Officer Hardass.

The more reasonable assumption - lacking evidence to the contrary (and arguably against) - is that TM reacted like a typical teen punk would, even to merely being asked who he was and why he was there. Probably only compounded if TM believes he's being racially profiled.

Sorry dude, 9 times out of 10 the teen kid starts that fight. And it's a real longshot to think Zimmerman is flashing his gun and so TM thinks his only choice is to fight.

The notion that Martin knew before the altercation is conjecture.

elbuckeye28;1470385 wrote:This is factually incorrect; the operator never told him to stop following the person. The quote was something along the lines "you don't need to do that."

While not a perfect analogy, when somebody pays for the entire table's dinner, the common response is very similar (e.g. "you don't need to pay for it"). I've never heard anybody try to say that it was a command not to pay for it.

Even if it was factually correct, what business is it of the dispatch to tell someone not to walk in their own neighborhood? The entire issue about whether she told him to stay in his car or not is moot. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I thought this was America (channeling Randy Marsh from South Park), we're allowed to walk on the street.

Manhattan Buckeye;1470404 wrote:Even if it was factually correct, what business is it of the dispatch to tell someone not to walk in their own neighborhood? The entire issue about whether she told him to stay in his car or not is moot. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I thought this was America (channeling Randy Marsh from South Park), we're allowed to walk on the street.

Great point. To me it highlights the misrepresentation of the facts (command vs. what was actually said) and attempts to create a false sense of authority. It's deception based on a lie.

gut;1470399 wrote:I think you are reaching. You act like Zimmerman was walking around like some gangster, brandishing his gun and growing balls. Zimmerman is an adult, with a family. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - he may have confronted TM (which is perfectly fine to ask someone you don't recognize), but I'd stop short of assuming he's walking around like Officer Hardass.

The more reasonable assumption - lacking evidence to the contrary (and arguably against) - is that TM reacted like a typical teen punk would, even to merely being asked who he was and why he was there. Probably only compounded if TM believes he's being racially profiled.

Sorry dude, 9 times out of 10 the teen kid starts that fight. And it's a real longshot to think Zimmerman is flashing his gun and so TM thinks his only choice is to fight.

and what happend probably is closer to what you are saying as to how I described it.
SOmeone said TM didnt know about the gun until they were wrestling on the ground. How do they know that? Of course Zimmerman would say that as it would support his case that he was attacked for no reason.


I dont know....I guess we try to put ourselves into this situation. If I was Zimmerman what would I do? If I see a suspicous person while I am on watch, call it in and keys eyes on the subject and stay at a distance. I am not sure I would approach some young punk at night if at the time he wasnt really doing anything illegal...call it in...keep eyes on...that is all it took.

Regardless of what happened here, you have no obligation to follow an unlawful police order anyways. And police issue unlawful orders ALL THE TIME. Almost never are they menacing or ridiculous, usually orders like that are for the benefit of all involved--but they don't create law by speaking.

thavoice;1470429 wrote:and what happend probably is closer to what you are saying as to how I described it.
SOmeone said TM didnt know about the gun until they were wrestling on the ground. How do they know that? Of course Zimmerman would say that as it would support his case that he was attacked for no reason.


I dont know....I guess we try to put ourselves into this situation. If I was Zimmerman what would I do? If I see a suspicous person while I am on watch, call it in and keys eyes on the subject and stay at a distance. I am not sure I would approach some young punk at night if at the time he wasnt really doing anything illegal...call it in...keep eyes on...that is all it took.

I personally believe that is exactly what he did. Just kept an eye on it. He says he walked down that path to give an accurate address to the police. Could he be lying? Yes. But is that unreasonable? No. The guy cooperated with police from the start. The mild inconsistencies in his story are typical of any story--I'd be more surprised if he had it down to a T every time he told it to be honest.

ccrunner609;1470480 wrote:a 911 operator isn't a actual police officer. So the 911 operator does not the say on what you can and cannot do.

English?

thavoice;1470429 wrote: I dont know....I guess we try to put ourselves into this situation. If I was Zimmerman what would I do? If I see a suspicous person while I am on watch, call it in and keys eyes on the subject and stay at a distance. I am not sure I would approach some young punk at night if at the time he wasnt really doing anything illegal...call it in...keep eyes on...that is all it took.

Was it night time? I thought it was late afternoon but raining pretty good. Guess it was early evening.

I certainly wouldn't have confronted TM, but that doesn't make Zimmerman wrong. If he was acting weird, I might have asked him if he needed directions and who he was going to see (from the safety of my car). If I wasn't satisfied, then I'd call.

In hindsight - although I can't say how a number of crimes/breakins in my neighborhood might change my perception - common sense tells you criminals don't wander around by themselves, on the sidewalk, in the early evening in the rain (aside from maybe a loan meth head). If Zimmerman had been decisive and simply asked the kid what he was doing instead of stalking him probably unsure of what to do, then this might all have been avoided. Even if he ultimately did just try to ask him where he was going, the delay/indecisiveness probably put TM on edge.

Otherwise, Zimmerman's story is basically what you're saying - he tried to keep eyes on the kid. Now I don't know if he got out of the car to give an address to police (doesn't make much sense), or to see where TM might have gone. I agree getting out of the car was a mistake, especially if you are suspicious enough to call it in common sense would seem to dictate you not leave the safety of your car.

Me?;1470469 wrote:He says he walked down that path to give an accurate address to the police. Could he be lying? Yes. But is that unreasonable? No.

Unreasonable, no. But don't you expect a neighborhood watch volunteer to know the area where he lives better than that? And are there no street signs? Was it raining that hard that you couldn't see addresses from the car? And wouldn't they have GPS from his 911 call, anyway?

You aren't very familiar with the scene in question are you?

GZ will not testify. Also now judge will rule on if lesser charges like manslaughter can now be considered. That may be trouble for the Zman. I still think he does and should walk!

Fab1b;1470798 wrote:GZ will not testify. Also now judge will rule on if lesser charges like manslaughter can now be considered. That may be trouble for the Zman. I still think he does and should walk!

It all rides on self defense - he's still fucked with manslaughter since it's in florida and with a gun. I think the sentence would be similar as murder 2.

He's walking.

Me?;1470814 wrote:He's walking.

Coin flip in the jurys hands. Cassey Anthony walked and there was no way she shouldn't have been convicted, so who knows.

I was 100% he was walking until the talk of lesser charges now being on the table possibly. I think now allowing manslaughter hurts GZ very much. It can be the "saving grace" for the jury to get the politics/race baiters/potential revenge factor off their backs vs a not guilty of murder verdict! It is BS CCrunner!

There is definitely a chance he doesn't. But there is absolutely no way anyone can argue there isn't reasonable doubt. Hell, I think it's far beyond reasonable doubt. Based on the evidence and testimony, I think it was self defense.

The jury shouldn't be aware of anything going on outside of the trial. Doesn't mean they aren't, but they shouldn't. If we assume they aren't, that shouldn't impact the decision at all. I honestly don't think they can get a manslaughter charge. They have to prove that he shouldn't have "followed" him. His story is that he walked down the path to get a more solid address for the police. Walking down that path was no crime and if the jury believes that Martin basically jumped him because he felt threatened by being followed, then you can't call it manslaughter, it would still be self defense. So the way I see it, he'd have to get off on manslaughter for the same reason he won't be charged with murder.

ccrunner609;1470830 wrote:if the judge did her job, she wouldn't even take these charges to the jury. Case should be thrown out.

I agree with this. The case should have been thrown out after the state failed to make a case. I never imagined she would have thrown it out, but they honestly made no case. Their witnesses made the defense's case for them.

The powers that be are no doubt in that judges earhole!

I think the jury twiddles their thumbs for about 3 days to look like "serious, earnest consideration" and come back with not-guilty.

Agreed it should be thrown out, and in actuality probably never charged in the first place. He was only charged because of the sensationalized media creating a perception that it was some sort of hate crime.

That said, aside from being a waste of taxpayer money I'm glad it went to trial. People really need to think twice before playing cop.

This judge has been biased and had it in for GZ since the beginning. She showed her true colors yesterday by being out of line by speaking directly with George Zimmerman before the defense rested. She is definietly feeling pressure from someone above her. The DoJ, Obama, Sharpton? Who knows. What happened yesterday, is almost grounds for a mistrial.