The war ended 61 years ago. The insanity of our foreign policy continues to astound. Pat Buchanan's article explains here.

http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2013/02/15/why-are-we-still-on-the-dmz-n1512734

Strategic stability.
And we tried to remove ourselves in 2010, and the ROK couldn't coordinate jack in a Naval exercise.

That said, we are slowly removing forces and moving to other places in the Pacific.
U.S. forces aren't as much in the DMZ as before.

Plus, the U.S. gave the greenlight for South Korea to be able to make their own medium range missiles and cruise missiles.

We definitely need to get out of Europe, South Korea, and Japan.

believer;1389954 wrote:We definitely need to get out of Europe, South Korea, and Japan.

I'd agree reduce the forces ,but I'd say we need at least some sort of presence there.
We cannot totally leave Ramstein. It is too much of an asset in any potential future conflict in Africa or the Middle East.
South Korea, we continue to let them mature, and slowly retreat.
Same with Japan, we need to leave Okinawa as it is too much of a sore point. We can move to Australia, Guam, New Zealand and other areas with lighter, faster footprints.

Thing with Asia is we cannot total withdraw, as that will give China free reign.

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:We cannot totally leave Ramstein. It is too much of an asset in any potential future conflict in Africa or the Middle East.

We have aircraft carriers.

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:South Korea, we continue to let them mature, and slowly retreat.

61 years seems a little too slow don't you think?

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:Same with Japan, we need to leave Okinawa as it is too much of a sore point.

Japan is not South Korea. They are more than able to defend their own interests without our assistance.

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:We can move to Australia, Guam, New Zealand and other areas with lighter, faster footprints.

We're already in Guam but I'd agree with this for the most part.

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:Thing with Asia is we cannot total withdraw, as that will give China free reign.

Eh....China enjoys an occasional saber rattling just to flex its muscles but other than holding our economic testicles in their hands, their military is no major threat. Besides they need to play nice in the sand box with us so we'll keep gobbling down their cheap products. The economic symbiosis will win out almost every time.

We should be charging these countries for providing protection, not paying to use their military bases. Absolute crap that these countries can boast about all these social safety nets they can afford while we are protecting their asses on our dime.

We have to stay in Korea to make sure that Kia and Hyundai can honor their 10 year, 100,000 mile warranties

ptown_trojans_1;1389892 wrote:Plus, the U.S. gave the greenlight for South Korea to be able to make their own medium range missiles and cruise missiles.

Let me get this straight. The US grants permission for South Korea to provide for its own defense needs? They can more than take care of themselves. If we would let them. Its been 61yrs for shitsake.

tk421;1389996 wrote:We should be charging these countries for providing protection, not paying to use their military bases. Absolute crap that these countries can boast about all these social safety nets they can afford while we are protecting their asses on our dime.

This. We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

Actually we are moving more people to korea. Marines are being removed from kadena and relocated to south korea or guam.

I dont want to be stationed there. Way too close to n korea for me.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook book we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com friends.

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of the their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products we once proudly produced at far cheaper prices. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of dollars of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII.

Meanwhile we blindly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though, right? We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the ship to the left.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook book we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com friends.

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of the their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII.

Meanwhile we blindly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though, right? We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the ship to the left.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook book we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com friends.

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of the their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII.

Meanwhile we blindly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though, right? We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the ship to the left.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook book we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com friends.

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of the their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII.

Meanwhile we blindly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though, right? We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the ship to the left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook book we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com friends.

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of the their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII.

Then we blindly and stupidly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though, right? We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the ship to the left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook, we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com "friends."

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. We have the Euro-socialists looking down on our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of free 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII. But - hey - those eeeeevil 'Merican corporatists knew that the domestic market alone wasn't enough to sustain the post-war economic boom, right?

Then we blindly and stupidly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though. We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the domestic ship to the political left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook, we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com "friends."

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. The Euro-socialists look down their noses at our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII. But - hey - those eeeeevil 'Merican corporatists knew that the domestic market alone wasn't enough to sustain the post-war economic boom, right?

Then we blindly and stupidly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though. We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the domestic ship to the political left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East. After all, we have to sustain our cushy formerly-American way of life.

It's time to get out of Europe, Korea, and Japan.

majorspark;1390156 wrote:We have been subsidizing the defense needs of these countries for decades.

And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook, we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com "friends."

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. The Euro-socialists look down their noses at our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII. But - hey - those eeeeevil 'Merican corporatists knew that the domestic market alone wasn't enough to sustain the post-war economic boom, right?

Then we blindly and stupidly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though. We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the domestic ship to the political left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East. After all, we have to sustain our cushy formerly-American way of life.

It's time to get out of Europe, Japan, and Korea.

ptown_trojans_1;1389957 wrote:Thing with Asia is we cannot total withdraw, as that will give China free reign.

Free reign to do what? When is the last time they invaded and occupied another country?

The real reason is a lot simpler, it's money and jobs. We can't get out of these countries because that would mean a very reduced military and less jobs and less money to spend going to these huge corporations.

believer;1390215 wrote: It's time to get out of Europe, Japan, and Korea.

and when another 9/11 or natural disaster happens somewhere in the world far away, we'll look like bumbling idiots trying to react. we pull out of all those countries, it will take days, instead of hours to react. i guess that is the difference i see, i am proud that we can react to anything in the world at a moments notice to help those in need instead of just a token response like other countries show. sure it aint cheap, but it worth in it in the big scheme of things.

also, are there any numbers showing its how expensive it is to operate bases overseas compared to CONUS?

Cleveland Buck;1390390 wrote:Free reign to do what? When is the last time they invaded and occupied another country?

Korea. Back in the 50's. That might be why we are still there.

believer;1390215 wrote:And then the world points their fingers at us and laughs as we are unable to keep our financial house in order.

Hell, if we called in the debt owed us after our "investment" in ridding the world of fascism - and to a large extent communism - we'd not only have a balanced checkbook, we'd be a loaner nation once again. And this includes our newly-found Chi-com "friends."

We've all seen the ROI in that investment. The Euro-socialists look down their noses at our "aggressive imperialism" while they've enjoyed the economic benefits of 'Merican military protection. The Japanese were able to tool-up rapidly after WWII to outproduce our own auto manufacturers because they too enjoyed "free" national defense courtesy of their American conquerors.

Meanwhile the Chi-coms ironically capitalize on our own government over-regulation and corporate & Big Labor greed by offering up products at far cheaper prices - products we once proudly produced. Then we lament that unemployment continues to nag us.

And let's not forget the billions of non-military American taxpayer dollars that went into re-building Europe, Japan, and (to an extent) China after WWII. But - hey - those eeeeevil 'Merican corporatists knew that the domestic market alone wasn't enough to sustain the post-war economic boom, right?

Then we blindly and stupidly clamor for the "successes" of Euro-socialism while the Europeans themselves struggle under the massive weight of the their cradle-to-grave entitlement programs.

No big deal though. We'll just keep making dollars out of thin air to keep the world safe from itself while we sing, "Us Too, Us Too" as we keep steering the domestic ship to the political left.

As long as we have environmental extremists in DC unwilling to allow us to exploit domestic sources of energy, we need the military resources being wasted in Europe, Japan, and Korea to insure that the Islamofascists do not impede the free-flow of relatively cheap oil from the Middle East. After all, we have to sustain our cushy formerly-American way of life.

It's time to get out of Europe, Japan, and Korea.

Reps. except you are still base off on the "Islamofascists" nonsense. Remember, we have been in the middle east since 1953 meddling. That's 59 years. Not 61...just a measly 59.

Footwedge;1390691 wrote:Reps. except you are still base off on the "Islamofascists" nonsense. Remember, we have been in the middle east since 1953 meddling. That's 59 years. Not 61...just a measly 59.

Not even close to being off. We'll be there as long as we insist that it's better to extract oil from the land of Sharia Law rather than expanding on sources of energy a lot closer to home.

Footwedge;1390691 wrote:Reps. except you are still base off on the "Islamofascists" nonsense. Remember, we have been in the middle east since 1953 meddling. That's 59 years. Not 61...just a measly 59.

Not even close to being off.

As long as we insist that it's better to extract relatively cheap oil from the the Land of Sharia Law - where the Religion of Peace has reigned supreme and all the various flavors of Mohammed followers have lived in peace with one another for centuries - we'll be hanging around that region of the planet for a long, long time.