So nothing has changed?? Only someone who hasn't lived here in a long time would even try to say that. Couldn't be more wrong....

Companies like Orrvillon & JLG came here from other towns nearby...bringing with them their employees who chose to commute to Orrville rather than live here.

Smuckers beautiful new factory is very automated...employing a fraction of what it used to. Their office workers reside in Wadsworth, Medina & Fairlawn & probably chuckle at the thought of living here. Our town doesn't offer anything to the young professional/family.

Just sit on 57 every morning around 8am and watch the stream of (nice) cars coming in from the north. People who work here but don't live here.

Gone is Westinghouse, Koppers, Orrville Products, Volvo, technocast, Orrville Leather & others. Those were the blue collar jobs where Orrville people used to work. Probably 1,000 jobs between those companies I just named.

Town has changed....look no further than the upcoming levy..used to be an automatic pass in this town..people understood the importance of strong schools. Every levy deserves to be criticized, but this one makes sense..we either pass it & move forward with a clearer financial picture & a beautiful new school campus...or the dark cloud gets darker as services & staff see deeper cuts.

It's a real intersection of where we want to see our community go if you ask me.

The blue collar kid from a hard working family used to be the norm...seems to be the exception now.

RedRider1;1425671 wrote:So nothing has changed?? Only someone who hasn't lived here in a long time would even try to say that. Couldn't be more wrong....

Companies like Orrvillon & JLG came here from other towns nearby...bringing with them their employees who chose to commute to Orrville rather than live here.

Smuckers beautiful new factory is very automated...employing a fraction of what it used to. Their office workers reside in Wadsworth, Medina & Fairlawn & probably chuckle at the thought of living here. Our town doesn't offer anything to the young professional/family.

Just sit on 57 every morning around 8am and watch the stream of (nice) cars coming in from the north. People who work here but don't live here.

Gone is Westinghouse, Koppers, Orrville Products, Volvo, technocast, Orrville Leather & others. Those were the blue collar jobs where Orrville people used to work. Probably 1,000 jobs between those companies I just named.

Town has changed....look no further than the upcoming levy..used to be an automatic pass in this town..people understood the importance of strong schools. Every levy deserves to be criticized, but this one makes sense..we either pass it & move forward with a clearer financial picture & a beautiful new school campus...or the dark cloud gets darker as services & staff see deeper cuts.

It's a real intersection of where we want to see our community go if you ask me.

The blue collar kid from a hard working family used to be the norm...seems to be the exception now.

I do enough business in Orrville to know otherwise! Wilburt has acquired other companies and is bigger then ever, Volvo got replaced by JLG which has more employees and I know many of them that reside in Orrville. Add in Baekert Corporation and again your argument is weak at best. Has nothing to do with why kids are not coming out for the football team. Lets not blame the 1-9 record last year on lack of blue collar jobs. Wasn't Orrville just in the state semifinals a few years ago with the same blue collar jobs?

Plenty of those JLG employees head south after work, back to Dover/New Philly where they used to work.

Bekaert was Contours and they used to be a lot bigger.

Still lost Westinghouse, Koppers, Orr Products, Technocast, Orr Leather...and those aren't coming back.

Our industrial base is full of commuters.

Smuckers has grown, but I bet 75% of their office staff lives elsewhere.

We used to be D-3 in football, now we'll be D-5. That's not a sign of a growing city/district.

Oh don't forget a little operation in Wooster called Rubbermaid. Plenty of Orrville people used to work there.

But you're right....nothing has changed. LOL.

Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, things have changed in this area. And those things do impact the kids that attend our schools and the kids that suit up for our sports teams.

It's more complicated than "blame the coach" much to your disappointment I'm sure.

Red Rider Nation;1425291 wrote:What's different in reference to blue collar jobs now then 30 years ago in Orrville? What is not there now that was there 30 years ago other then Seifrieds, Reynolds, and Johnson Hardware and Orr Twin Cinema? Smuckers has grown in size and created many factory jobs as well as white collar jobs over the years. The industrial places are still there and perhaps even more of them with the addition of Orrvillon

Sure, but people are choosing not to live in this town because there is nothing here. I wouldn't move to this town either. I mean look around the next time your here. LOTS of less than desirable properties, vacant homes, and unemployment!

In addition to that, kids are choosing to specialize and many are choosing sports that are not as physical and demanding as football. Have kids changed?? I don't know, but family dynamics have across the country and kids are being held less accountable and work ethic means that the kids actually have to do some work and many of them are not willing to do that!

Imagine you're a young professional..married & no kids. You want a town with some nightlife & some recreation & nice restaurants. you want some nice apartments while you find your way professionally & some nice housing developments when you decide to start a family.

Around this area...is Orrville even in the top 10 of cities that provide that? Where are nice apartments in town? What about nice housing developments?

When 2 of your newer buildings are a renovated Salvation Army & a brand new Goodwill on Main St., that should tell you what is going on in this town. There's a need for the services those 2 organizations provide & they're thriving...good things for those that need those services but not exactly a hallmark of a growing & thriving local economy.

RedRider1;1425797 wrote:Imagine you're a young professional..married & no kids. You want a town with some nightlife & some recreation & nice restaurants. you want some nice apartments while you find your way professionally & some nice housing developments when you decide to start a family.

Around this area...is Orrville even in the top 10 of cities that provide that? Where are nice apartments in town? What about nice housing developments?

When 2 of your newer buildings are a renovated Salvation Army & a brand new Goodwill on Main St., that should tell you what is going on in this town. There's a need for the services those 2 organizations provide & they're thriving...good things for those that need those services but not exactly a hallmark of a growing & thriving local economy.

Come on guys it's not Compton! If its so bad why are you staying? I can tell you this: where I work we provide uniforms for the blue collar worker and the biggest route day we have is in Orrville-manufacturing jobs have moved out of this country so it's not just "Lets feel sorry for Orrville" - yes we used to be D3 when there was 5 divisions now we are D5 with 7 divisions so again a weak argument at best! Pretty sure Norwayne's community attracts NOBODY as well as a young couple starting out but it doesn't seem to affect the football program. It only April guys and it sounds like you are mailing in the 2013 season and chalking it up as a bad one 4 months before it starts-maybe it's you guys that have changed because after all kids will be kids!

Red Rider Nation;1425884 wrote:Come on guys it's not Compton! If its so bad why are you staying? I can tell you this: where I work we provide uniforms for the blue collar worker and the biggest route day we have is in Orrville-manufacturing jobs have moved out of this country so it's not just "Lets feel sorry for Orrville" - yes we used to be D3 when there was 5 divisions now we are D5 with 7 divisions so again a weak argument at best! Pretty sure Norwayne's community attracts NOBODY as well as a young couple starting out but it doesn't seem to affect the football program. It only April guys and it sounds like you are mailing in the 2013 season and chalking it up as a bad one 4 months before it starts-maybe it's you guys that have changed because after all kids will be kids!

I stayed because this is my town, my school, my employment, and I want my boys to be Red Riders! Why did you leave?

Nobody is feeling sorry for Orrville, its just the current state of the community. Norwayne had one tremendous year that they WILL NEVER REPEAT and you are saying we should be looking at their program as some sort of gold standard for football programs? NO

I am not writing this season off, nor is anyone else on this thread. I just stated facts about this team. We need an O-line and the offensive scheme needs to change. Yes, that is on the coach to do that, but let me repeat myself again...it is slim pickings. I talk to my brother almost daily about this and he has said over and over again that kids don't want to put in the effort that is required to be a good football player. We have a few, but thats it!

RedRider1;1425755 wrote:Plenty of those JLG employees head south after work, back to Dover/New Philly where they used to work.

Bekaert was Contours and they used to be a lot bigger.

Still lost Westinghouse, Koppers, Orr Products, Technocast, Orr Leather...and those aren't coming back.

Our industrial base is full of commuters.

Smuckers has grown, but I bet 75% of their office staff lives elsewhere.

We used to be D-3 in football, now we'll be D-5. That's not a sign of a growing city/district.

I moved to Orrville in 1993, Westinghouse or whatever it's name changed to did not have that many employees, Koppers was already closed if I'm not mistaken, Orr Prod., Technocast and Orr Leather were not that big at that time. How many of you are pushing your children to "blue collar" at Quality Castings. Hasn't Smith Dairy and Wil-Burt been relatively consistent? So, did we really lose that many workers in the places you've mentioned? Many of those people from the 80's, 90's and 00's aren't having that many children, some are moving away because many "blue collar" jobs aren't paying that well!

Many of us, (whether blue collar or not), encouraged our children to go to college in an effort to earn a better living than what most "blue collar" jobs provide and sports was used, if possible, to earn scholarships to ease the financial burden to attend college.

Many kids these days are lazy and have a terrible work ethic. Add to that some of the coaches that are trying to "earn" scholarships for their kids and kids of their family and friends, so they feature them with starting roles and majority minutes played, which breeds bias and favoritism. With that happening, some kids at a young age and older choose not to even participate in sports, especially football and basketball.

And really, do you think that every office worker at Smuckers is young professional married without kids? What, if anything is the City of Orrville doing to attract some of those employees to want to live here, or to create housing, night life and/or restaurants in some of those empty lots (and there are many) created by Smuckers?

Series62;1425905 wrote:I moved to Orrville in 1993, Westinghouse or whatever it's name changed to did not have that many employees, Koppers was already closed if I'm not mistaken, Orr Prod., Technocast and Orr Leather were not that big at that time. How many of you are pushing your children to "blue collar" at Quality Castings. Hasn't Smith Dairy and Wil-Burt been relatively consistent? So, did we really lose that many workers in the places you've mentioned? Many of those people from the 80's, 90's and 00's aren't having that many children, some are moving away because many "blue collar" jobs aren't paying that well!

Many of us, (whether blue collar or not), encouraged our children to go to college in an effort to earn a better living than what most "blue collar" jobs provide and sports was used, if possible, to earn scholarships to ease the financial burden to attend college.

Many kids these days are lazy and have a terrible work ethic. Add to that some of the coaches that are trying to "earn" scholarships for their kids and kids of their family and friends, so they feature them with starting roles and majority minutes played, which breeds bias and favoritism. With that happening, some kids at a young age and older choose not to even participate in sports, especially football and basketball.

And really, do you think that every office worker at Smuckers is young professional married without kids? What, if anything is the City of Orrville doing to attract some of those employees to want to live here, to create housing in some of those empty lots created by Smuckers?

I agree. I only wish this town had more to offer so that we could keep some of those younger folks here in town or to move in. I also agree with the fact that some kids have been granted some playing time for that same reason you mention and it certainly has created some favoritism/bias. I always liked Coach Smitty's philosophy...he wanted kids to practice hard and play hard. But if you weren't that good, you weren't gonna touch the floor! Simple. He and Mo Tipton NEVER played favorites. These days of parents gryping about playing time, etc, etc is a JOKE! I can hear Smitty now...If a parent ever approached him or wanted to speak with him about lack of playing time he would have told that parent "Sure, I will meet with you. Just make sure you bring your sons practice jersey with you so that you can turn it in after you leave because your son will never touch the floor now!"

Old Rider;1425910 wrote:I agree. I only wish this town had more to offer so that we could keep some of those younger folks here in town or to move in. I also agree with the fact that some kids have been granted some playing time for that same reason you mention and it certainly has created some favoritism/bias. I always liked Coach Smitty's philosophy...he wanted kids to practice hard and play hard. But if you weren't that good, you weren't gonna touch the floor! Simple. He and Mo Tipton NEVER played favorites. These days of parents gryping about playing time, etc, etc is a JOKE! I can hear Smitty now...If a parent ever approached him or wanted to speak with him about lack of playing time he would have told that parent "Sure, I will meet with you. Just make sure you bring your sons practice jersey with you so that you can turn it in after you leave because your son will never touch the floor now!"

In my opinion, many kids didn't get a lot of playing time because they couldn't get much "practice time" because there was so many kids going out for football and basketball. Coach Smith (Jr. High), didn't let the non-starters get much time during football and basketball because he seemed to always want to run up the score on the other teams. And if talking with the Coach Smitty meant "turning in your jersey" afterwards, then just cut him and save the "bs" conversation!

Series62;1425905 wrote:I moved to Orrville in 1993, Westinghouse or whatever it's name changed to did not have that many employees, Koppers was already closed if I'm not mistaken, Orr Prod., Technocast and Orr Leather were not that big at that time. How many of you are pushing your children to "blue collar" at Quality Castings. Hasn't Smith Dairy and Wil-Burt been relatively consistent? So, did we really lose that many workers in the places you've mentioned? Many of those people from the 80's, 90's and 00's aren't having that many children, some are moving away because many "blue collar" jobs aren't paying that well!

Many of us, (whether blue collar or not), encouraged our children to go to college in an effort to earn a better living than what most "blue collar" jobs provide and sports was used, if possible, to earn scholarships to ease the financial burden to attend college.

Many kids these days are lazy and have a terrible work ethic. Add to that some of the coaches that are trying to "earn" scholarships for their kids and kids of their family and friends, so they feature them with starting roles and majority minutes played, which breeds bias and favoritism. With that happening, some kids at a young age and older choose not to even participate in sports, especially football and basketball.

And really, do you think that every office worker at Smuckers is young professional married without kids? What, if anything is the City of Orrville doing to attract some of those employees to want to live here, or to create housing, night life and/or restaurants in some of those empty lots (and there are many) created by Smuckers?

I'll agree with you in the respect that this is a blue collar town in what is becoming a white collar economy. College degrees produce white collar jobs. It has changed and the companies here were (and are) blue collar companies that employ factory workers.

Our workforce is also aging as you mentioned...and that's a big problem too. Aging populations don't have kids in the system. People wonder why we're not seeing Orrville "names" in the schools...it's because those names went to college & stayed away for bette opportunities.

Again...I don't know of a kid that wasn't given a deserved opportunity due to another getting time because of some sort of bias or name. I believe that bias should be shown.....to kids who work hard (especially in the off season) and are team-first kids. We have some that show up on day 1 of mandatory practice & expect a starting job to be handed to them. Of course, those are the ones whose parents bitch the most when they don't get the opportunities that others have simply out-worked them for.

I think playing the "coach don't like me" card is a serious cop out. Why would a coach sacrifice success in order to play favorites? It's used to make someone feel better about a situation they created or just happen to be stuck in (there's just a kid better than them at their position).

Who has gotten a scholarship lately that doesn't deserve one? Plybon? Monheim? Hoobler? Pirman? Hiller? I see a common trait in all of those names.....Hard work & dedication. There's always going to be phyiscal attributes that attract a college to a kid, and you can't teach or coach that...but why blame the kid for that? I'll be biased towards kids who work hard all day.

And OldRider, that Smitty story is funny...imagine if that were today...some sports wouldn't have enough kids to field a team. Smitty was hard, but fair. Didn't matter if you were black, white, rich or poor...or where your daddy worked. At the end of the day, you got the opportunity you deserved as a result of your work ethic and how bad you wanted it.

Series62;1425913 wrote:In my opinion, many kids didn't get a lot of playing time because they couldn't get much "practice time" because there was so many kids going out for football and basketball. Coach Smith (Jr. High), didn't let the non-starters get much time during football and basketball because he seemed to always want to run up the score on the other teams. And if talking with the Coach Smitty meant "turning in your jersey" afterwards, then just cut him and save the "bs" conversation!

Because the administration at the time did not allow "cutting" of kids or Smitty would have gladly cut several of them that I played with (maybe even me) LOL. Smitty would tell you at the beginning of the season if you were gonna see any playing time or not. At that point, it was up to the kid to decide to stick it out or not.

You guys all make good points, and even RR.nation has a point, that we made a playoff run just two years ago with white collar guys, I don't agree with him on coaching change, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. On the state of blue collar jobs in Orrville, I would venture to say Orrville has fared better than most communities, I tried to look that up that on bureau of labor statistics, and god bless anyone that can navigate that site, but if you are looking for a football team full of blue collar kids then call the travel agent and book your flight to china. I am sure someone on this site could find those stats, but I don't think it's as bad as you might think, at the yearly chamber dinner, I was floored how many companies have expanded (Ventrac, Will Burt, JLG,) or new companies have located here (that's why Mark Zook needs to post, he probably has those facts, so Old Rider or Red Rider1 go down the hall and interrupt his daily massage and tell him to post). With all that being said, and there are many issues that contribute, I feel the biggest issue is home life, or lack of it. There is some fine single parent homes and sometime things happen that are out their control , but ask a teacher about the level of support or discipline the kids gets at home, now you could blame that on low income housing, school levy's failing, main street turning into a row of duplexes as you come into town all of these are factors, but I feel it starts at home, to many fathers and sometime mothers not involved in their kids life's or involved in the wrong ways, (Johnny , did not get a trophy or Johnny did not get his fair share of shots or Johnny is better than Timmy he should get more playing time). I don't believe for one second that because John Moneim grinded teeth instead of castings that, had any bearing on Mason and how he turned out. Sports are a attitude, and if you don't teach Johnny that playing Xbox basketball does not actually make you a better shooter then that's on the parents, I know that's simplifying thing down and that there or other factors that come into play in bring a child up but it starts at home first, and a kid hardly has a fighting chance without the correct support or a kick in the butt sometimes.

RIDER DAD;1425927 wrote:You guys all make good points, and even RR.nation has a point, that we made a playoff run just two years ago with white collar guys, I don't agree with him on coaching change, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. On the state of blue collar jobs in Orrville, I would venture to say Orrville has fared better than most communities, I tried to look that up that on bureau of labor statistics, and god bless anyone that can navigate that site, but if you are looking for a football team full of blue collar kids then call the travel agent and book your flight to china. I am sure someone on this site could find those stats, but I don't think it's as bad as you might think, at the yearly chamber dinner, I was floored how many companies have expanded (Ventrac, Will Burt, JLG,) or new companies have located here (that's why Mark Zook needs to post, he probably has those facts, so Old Rider or Red Rider1 go down the hall and interrupt his daily massage and tell him to post). With all that being said, and there are many issues that contribute, I feel the biggest issue is home life, or lack of it. There is some fine single parent homes and sometime things happen that are out their control , but ask a teacher about the level of support or discipline the kids gets at home, now you could blame that on low income housing, school levy's failing, main street turning into a row of duplexes as you come into town all of these are factors, but I feel it starts at home, to many fathers and sometime mothers not involved in their kids life's or involved in the wrong ways, (Johnny , did not get a trophy or Johnny did not get his fair share of shots or Johnny is better than Timmy he should get more playing time). I don't believe for one second that because John Moneim grinded teeth instead of castings that, had any bearing on Mason and how he turned out. Sports are a attitude, and if you don't teach Johnny that playing Xbox basketball does not actually make you a better shooter then that's on the parents, I know that's simplifying thing down and that there or other factors that come into play in bring a child up but it starts at home first, and a kid hardly has a fighting chance without the correct support or a kick in the butt sometimes.

Did you use Johnny and Timmy by accident? Old Rider and RR1 want to know! LOL

Old Rider;1426018 wrote:Did you use Johnny and Timmy by accident? Old Rider and RR1 want to know! LOL

That's funny. And why does Timmy have to be the bad athlete?

RedRider1;1425917 wrote:I'll agree with you in the respect that this is a blue collar town in what is becoming a white collar economy. College degrees produce white collar jobs. It has changed and the companies here were (and are) blue collar companies that employ factory workers....

There are still many blue collar jobs in and around Wayne County which comprises a majority of the workforce where residents of Orrville work. A purported "lack" of those types of jobs isn't the reason why the athletic teams aren't as good as in the past.

RedRider1;1425917 wrote:...Our workforce is also aging as you mentioned...and that's a big problem too. Aging populations don't have kids in the system. People wonder why we're not seeing Orrville "names" in the schools...it's because those names went to college & stayed away for bette opportunities...

I didn't say that the "work force is aging"...I said that many of us and our children do not have the size families as we did when we grew up. Therefore, fewer children in the school system today. And yes, there are for some, more and better opportunities outside of this area, blue and white collar for that matter.

RedRider1;1425917 wrote:...Again...I don't know of a kid that wasn't given a deserved opportunity due to another getting time because of some sort of bias or name. I believe that bias should be shown.....to kids who work hard (especially in the off season) and are team-first kids. We have some that show up on day 1 of mandatory practice & expect a starting job to be handed to them. Of course, those are the ones whose parents bitch the most when they don't get the opportunities that others have simply out-worked them for...

I think you "don't know" because you don't want to know. If a student/player hasn't put in the work, then don't give them a uniform, regardless of the "parents bitching"! That's how you solve that problem! However, it is so very easy for you to continually make that statement, but we didn't see much evidence of that "out-working" this season did we? Or, was it more evidence of the coaches "stubbornness" and refusal to adjust their game plan?

RedRider1;1425917 wrote:I think playing the "coach don't like me" card is a serious cop out. Why would a coach sacrifice success in order to play favorites? It's used to make someone feel better about a situation they created or just happen to be stuck in (there's just a kid better than them at their position)...

I didn't play the "coach don't like me" card. I did say that there exists bias and favoritism. When you ask, "Why would a coach sacrifice success in order to play favorites?", I'll ask you, why did he?

Hard work, dedication, and motivation you can teach and coach!
If the player is lazy, poor work ethic, unteachable and uncoachable...don't give them a uniform!
Explain the mandatory requirements to the parents and athlete, hold to them and be fair giving everyone an equal opportunity.

Old Rider;1426018 wrote:Did you use Johnny and Timmy by accident? Old Rider and RR1 want to know! LOL

just names that came to mind, but maybe it was a freudian slip, just kidding

rrfan;1424060 wrote:Good stuff on here. I am very worried about the Line. Who is going to be there and who is working hard.

I don't see Bryce transfering. Just remember it is easier to pass protect as an undersized line than to move guys out of the way and create lanes to run through...

on the line, this is just my opinion from hearing the boys talk, center could be JJ miller (needs to knuckle down and take work out seriously) guards Harrison Brown and hopefully Dane Kick, Dane was one of the best linemen in this class as he came up, if his shoulder comes along as expected and he gets in shape for the season he will be solid. Amir Simpson tackle has been working out regular, after that it's probably going to flush out at two a days, couple of freshman that are to be sophomores that are working hard but, have to wait and see. They could also move Trevor Summers back to the line, he did a nice job at center two years ago. Maybe old rider has the inside scope on any sophomores that the coaches are happy with.

So RiderDad...you're saying that kids are putting work in now??? 4 months before the season starts?? And they're lifting weights VOLUNTARILY..in order to better themselves?

Surely this work they're putting in now will have no bearing on opportunities they get on Friday nights...will it?

After a 1-9 season you would hope something or someone would serve to motivate them! Let's just hope that their efforts and hopes aren't dashed by more bias and favoritism?

RedRider1;1427101 wrote:So RiderDad...you're saying that kids are putting work in now??? 4 months before the season starts?? And they're lifting weights VOLUNTARILY..in order to better themselves?

Surely this work they're putting in now will have no bearing on opportunities they get on Friday nights...will it?

Ok Red Rider 1, Just because I through Timmy under the bus a couple of post ago, don't get me between you and series. lol

Series62;1427257 wrote:After a 1-9 season you would hope something or someone would serve to motivate them! Let's just hope that their efforts and hopes aren't dashed by more bias and favoritism?

I'd certainly hope there's motivation....weight room should be full.

of course we've been told on this site before that some kids are just naturally gifted and don't need to work in the weight room to better themselves.

Hopefully all the kids are working as hard on their grades as they are in the weight room to make sure they're eligible in the fall.

^^Well...whoever told you that was wrong and therefore you shouldn't pay any attention to those comments. The weight room can improve the capabilities of natural talent and diligent study habits can improve the grades.

The weight room should be full, but is it?

Series62;1427311 wrote:^^Well...whoever told you that was wrong and therefore you shouldn't pay any attention to those comments. The weight room can improve the capabilities of natural talent and diligent study habits can improve the grades.

The weight room should be full, but is it?

Pretty sure the weight room is not full...unfortunately! It never is this time of year simply because of spring sports. Although I would expect to see that number increase as spring sports come to an end. But if the kids that don't play spring sports are not in the weight room now, they won't be in the weight room this summer or even when the season starts.