Classyposter58;1418248 wrote:Lies. No one is better than JV. They have identical numbers but AL>NL

AL is better than NL.

But NL W is better than AL C...imo (last few years, that is).

I also have nothing to back this up, and I am too lazy to look. But it seems like Kershaw had a few games (more than normal) blown by the pen the last couple years. JV had Valverde 2 years ago, though I do remember the pen blowing some of his games last year, but not as much as Kershaw.

Laley23;1418244 wrote:I think he is better than Verlander. Just insane how good he is at such a young age.

Even the Dodgers with their seemingly endless payroll are going to cringe when they sign that deal.

Verlander just got an 8 year deal for $180 million.

He is a month short of being 5 full years older than Kershaw.

I would not be the least bit surprised to see Kershaw and his agent ask for 10 years and probably around $250 million given his age and the kinds of deals some of these pitchers are getting him.

Whoever signs him will get him through his entire prime, which is totally unusual because pitching prospects almost never hit the market at 25 because of the service time requirement.

It is just 1 game, but if it is any indication of what is to come then we might see a contract this off-season the likes of which we never have before.

Laley23;1418258 wrote:AL is better than NL.

But NL W is better than AL C...imo (last few years, that is).

I also have nothing to back this up, and I am too lazy to look. But it seems like Kershaw had a few games (more than normal) blown by the pen the last couple years. JV had Valverde 2 years ago, though I do remember the pen blowing some of his games last year, but not as much as Kershaw.

Yeah he was 14-9 last year and led the NL in ERA

Laley23;1418258 wrote:AL is better than NL.

But NL W is better than AL C...imo (last few years, that is).

I also have nothing to back this up, and I am too lazy to look. But it seems like Kershaw had a few games (more than normal) blown by the pen the last couple years. JV had Valverde 2 years ago, though I do remember the pen blowing some of his games last year, but not as much as Kershaw.

The AL central is the worst division of all major professional sports.

Laley23;1418258 wrote:AL is better than NL.

But NL W is better than AL C...imo (last few years, that is).

I also have nothing to back this up, and I am too lazy to look. But it seems like Kershaw had a few games (more than normal) blown by the pen the last couple years. JV had Valverde 2 years ago, though I do remember the pen blowing some of his games last year, but not as much as Kershaw.

Only a 3rd of his starts last year were against the AL Central and he went 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA and his total ERA was just .15 higher so it wasn't a major difference

Kershaw is just entering the prime of his career. People forget he is only 25. And he just turned 25 2 weeks ago. He will be better than verlander if he isn't already

People forget he is only 25.

You can bet his agent will beat the Dodgers over the head with that point.


In other news, Robinson Cano has dumped Scott Boras as his agent and is now represented by Jay Z.

Consider he is in line for a monster $120+ million extension this off-season it is a huge blow to Boras as he loves doing those monster deals.

Brian Cashman says they made Cano a "significant" offer this off-season which Boras rejected, as he usually has his clients play it out to hit the market.

Wonder if that has anything to do with the change?

IggyPride00;1418485 wrote:You can bet his agent will beat the Dodgers over the head with that point.


In other news, Robinson Cano has dumped Scott Boras as his agent and is now represented by Jay Z.

Consider he is in line for a monster $120+ million extension this off-season it is a huge blow to Boras as he loves doing those monster deals.

Brian Cashman says they made Cano a "significant" offer this off-season which Boras rejected, as he usually has his clients play it out to hit the market.

Wonder if that has anything to do with the change?

Possibly. If Cano loves New York and wants to stay there, getting a New York guy to be his agent and get a deal done might be more in his interest than keeping a huge "$$$ or bust" guy who will drag things out to the bitter end and wind up putting him in Miami because Loria decided it was time to do another "spend $200M to win it all and sell everyone off in the offseason" things that fuck is fond of doing.

IggyPride00;1418485 wrote:You can bet his agent will beat the Dodgers over the head with that point.


In other news, Robinson Cano has dumped Scott Boras as his agent and is now represented by Jay Z.

Consider he is in line for a monster $120+ million extension this off-season it is a huge blow to Boras as he loves doing those monster deals.

Brian Cashman says they made Cano a "significant" offer this off-season which Boras rejected, as he usually has his clients play it out to hit the market.

Wonder if that has anything to do with the change?

At some point one has to ask what dollar amount is just not worth it.

Last year I think I counted 65 pitchers who started 30+ games, more than 2/team on average. 55 of them won double digits and only 4 won 20-21 games. The contention could be that any given starter in a certain slot in the rotation is going to win 12-14 games. Granted, there are ND's that factor in as well. It even isnt as easy as asking how much those 6-8 win difference are worth. If you dont sign a Kershaw to a 120million plus deal then you do have the $$ for a number of other players. One could say a good pitcher who would win 14/season, and position players that also help you wn more as well.

I am not opposed to the best players getting the best contracts, but at some point one has to ask at what point does it not become worth it?
Even if Votto hits 30HR and drives in 110 a season is he worth the 20 million plus when you can find a number of players who would hit 20/80? Yeah, votto is clutch as can be, the face of a franchise and someone who could be in the middle of a great team for a long time but I said the same thing when Arod signed.

Something has got to give.

Something has got to give.

It is why I am so fascinated to see the Kershaw contract.

They gave Grienke $160 million, and Verlander got $180.

Based on the market he is not out of line to ask for $220 miillion over 9 years given his age and resume at age 25.

At the same time that would be complete insanity to give to a pitcher, even if you do get his whole prime.

In the question of "how high can they go" this will really be the one that draws the line in the sand where you get to that question of "is it really worth it".

IggyPride00;1418500 wrote:It is why I am so fascinated to see the Kershaw contract.

They gave Grienke $160 million, and Verlander got $180.

Based on the market he is not out of line to ask for $220 miillion over 9 years given his age and resume at age 25.

At the same time that would be complete insanity to give to a pitcher, even if you do get his whole prime.

In the question of "how high can they go" this will really be the one that draws the line in the sand where you get to that question of "is it really worth it".

There is always some team that will jump in and so something stupid and every so often really crack the ceiling. LIke the rangers with Arod a few years ago. They reportedly gave arod 50+ million more then anyone else offered. Did they get bamboozled by his agent? Possibly.

Kershaw is a fantastic pitcher. Not many guys at the age of 25 are in his position..many times the guy is a bit older and ya really scratch you head at the deals.

Especially for a pitcher. 30-32 games is what you will get out of him. 20-22 wins is realistically what can be expected for a starter anymore.
Dont get me wrong, having that hammer at the top of a rotation does alot for a team. It sets the table for the whole staff, usually keeps you from having prolong droughts, but as we said already.....is it really worth it when that money can go to 3-4 other guys

Kershaw will be worth it. When was the last time a team won in the playoffs with shitty pitchers?

Laley23;1418515 wrote:Kershaw will be worth it. When was the last time a team won in the playoffs with shitty pitchers?

Angels in early 2000s.

I'd like to see Cleveland get off to a fast start tonight but the Jays look like they could be one of the top 3 in the AL.


Thoughts on both teams this season?

ohiobucks1;1418594 wrote:I'd like to see Cleveland get off to a fast start tonight but the Jays look like they could be one of the top 3 in the AL.


Thoughts on both teams this season?

They are a professional team.

From Cleveland.

Their destiny is written before the first pitch was thrown.

hasbeen;1418593 wrote:Angels in early 2000s.

Yeah....but that only worked because Dusty Baker was managing the other team.

Yu perfect thru 4 with 9 K

Tulo BOMB

Ironman92;1418804 wrote:Yu perfect thru 4 with 9 K

Does it count if its against the Astros?

Mulva;1418826 wrote:Does it count if its against the Astros?

As a half

Mulva;1418826 wrote:Does it count if its against the Astros?

The Astros came into today's game in 1st place.

Ironman92;1418830 wrote:The Astros came into today's game in 1st place.

Probably let it get to their heads.

Thru 6.....11 K

Thru 8

Oh shit lost it in 9th w/2 outs