The CT shooting and gun control

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gorocks99

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Dec 14, 2012 3:17 PM
Splitting off the gun control debate from the thread in Serious Business.
Dec 14, 2012 3:17pm
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GoChiefs

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Dec 14, 2012 3:19 PM
gut;1343029 wrote:Empty words, IMO. You think Israel or years hasn't tried to prevent suicide bombings? How's that working out for them. Sadly there's no preventing some things unless you go full gestapo and lock everyone down.

I don't recall saying anything would work? I agree, theres some things you just can't prevent.
Dec 14, 2012 3:19pm
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gut

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Dec 14, 2012 3:20 PM
Tiernan;1343028 wrote:Kudos to BHO and that prevention begins with ball busting gun controls.
Don't see it. What do you do about the millions of guns already out there? As has already been mentioned, CO had some of the strictest laws on the books.

You've got two incidents mentioned in this thread - one from 1927 where the guy used dynamite and one in China where they used a knife. I just feel it's naive to think these sort of things are preventable - keep playing whack-a-mole but the crazies are going to find a way. The solution is not controls but preventative measures.

Or I don't know, maybe if you put a federal ban on bullets eventually all the guns become inert.
Dec 14, 2012 3:20pm
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gut

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Dec 14, 2012 3:21 PM
GoChiefs;1343033 wrote:I don't recall saying anything would work? I agree, theres some things you just can't prevent.
But never let a crisis go to waste to advance your agenda.
Dec 14, 2012 3:21pm
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WebFire

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Dec 14, 2012 3:27 PM
gut;1343035 wrote:But never let a crisis go to waste to advance your agenda.
Right. We go through this every time there is a mass shooting. Put up all the laws you want. I'm sure the bad guys will follow them. :rolleyes:
Dec 14, 2012 3:27pm
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isadore

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Dec 14, 2012 3:28 PM
nra
children sacrificed for your right to bear arms
Dec 14, 2012 3:28pm
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isadore

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Dec 14, 2012 3:30 PM
WebFire;1343040 wrote:Right. We go through this every time there is a mass shooting. Put up all the laws you want. I'm sure the bad guys will follow them. :rolleyes:
we should try. 18 children sacrificed for your right to bear arms.
Dec 14, 2012 3:30pm
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GoChiefs

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Dec 14, 2012 3:30 PM
gut;1343035 wrote:But never let a crisis go to waste to advance your agenda.
Please re-read my post. Notice the part where I said today isn't the day? They can talk about it all they want later on, but show a little respect first.
GoChiefs;1343014 wrote:At least hes already said today is not the day to push any agendas. Kudos for that.
Dec 14, 2012 3:30pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 14, 2012 3:30 PM
Sonofanump;1343038 wrote:Younger brother is the shooter?
How did this post get moved to this thread?
Dec 14, 2012 3:30pm
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GoChiefs

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Dec 14, 2012 3:31 PM
isadore;1343046 wrote:we should try. 18 children sacrificed for your right to bear arms.
Yes, because gun control is going to stop something like this. :rolleyes:
Dec 14, 2012 3:31pm
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gorocks99

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Dec 14, 2012 3:36 PM
Sonofanump;1343048 wrote:How did this post get moved to this thread?
Sorry, my mistake (I think? Sometimes technology befuddles me). Will move it back.
Dec 14, 2012 3:36pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 3:42 PM
GoChiefs;1343049 wrote:Yes, because gun control is going to stop something like this. :rolleyes:
27 people, many of whom were defenseless children killed today in America in one shooting, the industrialized country with the loosest national gun control laws. In 2008, Japan, the industrialized country with the strictest national gun control laws, had 22 gun related homicides in the entire year and there was national outraged because it was a huge jump from the 2 they had in all of 2006.

National level gun control appears to discourage these types of random mass shootings which are largely unique to the United States as far as rich countries go.
Dec 14, 2012 3:42pm
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GoChiefs

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Dec 14, 2012 3:44 PM
BoatShoes;1343072 wrote:27 people, many of whom were defenseless children killed today in America in one shooting, the industrialized country with the loosest national gun control laws. In 2008, Japan, the industrialized country with the strictest national gun control laws, had 22 gun related homicides in the entire year and there was national outraged because it was a huge jump from the 2 they had in all of 2006.

National level gun control appears to discourage these types of random mass shootings which are largely unique to the United States as far as rich countries go.
22 people stabbed in a school in China today as well.
Dec 14, 2012 3:44pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 14, 2012 3:44 PM
gorocks99;1343062 wrote:Sorry, my mistake (I think? Sometimes technology befuddles me). Will move it back.
I was first confused, now am upset, not that the post was moved, but that I read isodore's idiotic post.
Dec 14, 2012 3:44pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 14, 2012 3:46 PM
GoChiefs;1343075 wrote:22 people stabbed in a school in China today as well.
Clearly China has weak knife laws. If guns laws are passed, only the illegal ones will be available and you would have only law enforcement and criminals with guns.
Dec 14, 2012 3:46pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 3:53 PM
GoChiefs;1343075 wrote:22 people stabbed in a school in China today as well.
Notice I said industrialized countries. China is still considered a developing country the likes of which there is much more violence and homicides of all kinds than in OECD countries. I suppose while we're at it we can talk about all of the murders that probably happened in Haiti today but oh wait they barely have electricity :rolleyes:
Dec 14, 2012 3:53pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 3:55 PM
Sonofanump;1343080 wrote:Clearly China has weak knife laws. If guns laws are passed, only the illegal ones will be available and you would have only law enforcement and criminals with guns.
It's really getting tiresome to read this line in this debate from everyone...

That's really not the case in the developed world. You can say you don't want to do it because you'd rather be free and massacres are part of the cost of freedom but the evidence seems to show that gun control on a national level can have some success in preventing homicides at the hands of so called criminals.

The idea that only cops and bad guys will have guns does not seem to bear fruit.
Dec 14, 2012 3:55pm
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WebFire

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Dec 14, 2012 3:57 PM
BoatShoes;1343085 wrote:It's really getting tiresome to read this line in this debate from everyone...

That's really not the case in the developed world. You can say you don't want to do it because you'd rather be free and massacres are part of the cost of freedom but the evidence seems to show that gun control on a national level can have some success in preventing homicides.
It's really getting tiresome reading your debates as well.
Dec 14, 2012 3:57pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 3:59 PM
WebFire;1343086 wrote:It's really getting tiresome reading your debates as well.
It can be rough confronting evidence based argumentation that contradicts your gut feelings. I understand and sympathize.
Dec 14, 2012 3:59pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 14, 2012 4:01 PM
BoatShoes;1343085 wrote:It's really getting tiresome to read this line in this debate from everyone...

That's really not the case in the developed world. You can say you don't want to do it because you'd rather be free and massacres are part of the cost of freedom but the evidence seems to show that gun control on a national level can have some success in preventing homicides.
I came up with that on my one free will, not copy and post from another source. Just common sense of what would exist.
Dec 14, 2012 4:01pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 14, 2012 4:02 PM
Your utopia sounds like was can be read in books like Anthem or The Giver.
Dec 14, 2012 4:02pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 4:03 PM
Sonofanump;1343090 wrote:I came up with that on my one free will, not copy and post from another source. Just common sense of what would exist.
Sound epistemology :thumbup:
Dec 14, 2012 4:03pm
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GoChiefs

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Dec 14, 2012 4:03 PM
BoatShoes;1343083 wrote:Notice I said industrialized countries. China is still considered a developing country the likes of which there is much more violence and homicides of all kinds than in OECD countries. I suppose while we're at it we can talk about all of the murders that probably happened in Haiti today but oh wait they barely have electricity :rolleyes:
Who gives a damn if it's industrialized or not? Point is, if they want to do it, they don't need guns. They will always find a way. I'm sorry that went over your head.
Dec 14, 2012 4:03pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 4:06 PM
Sonofanump;1343091 wrote:Your utopia sounds like was can be read in books like Anthem or The Giver.
There's nothing utopian about suggesting that it might be possible to deter consistent mass killings involving guns by mimicking other rich countries (that aren't utopias) who've been successful in doing so.
Dec 14, 2012 4:06pm
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BoatShoes

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Dec 14, 2012 4:09 PM
GoChiefs;1343095 wrote:Who gives a damn if it's industrialized or not? Point is, if they want to do it, they don't need guns. They will always find a way. I'm sorry that went over your head.
lol...it makes a difference...

What makes you think a depressed average man could take out 20 kindegartners regardless of what was available to him? Seems considerably easier to do when you can hop on your computer and get guns and body armor in the time it takes for pornhub to load.
Dec 14, 2012 4:09pm