Well no shit.. neither has any other pro-life candidate b/c it's a waste of their time since it will NEVER be overturned.

That's why if you vote for a party b/c they are pro-life, you are wasting your time.

The reverse is also true, wasting your time voting for a party because it's pro-choice. But if we are to believe the fear Dems keep pumping women with of it being overturned, then maybe it's not such an unreasonable position for people to think it could be overturned?

It's nothing more than a way for both sides to score brownie points with their base. And it's a popular stump/debate issue because it's mostly opinion with no real verifiable right or wrong answer. It's mostly a segway into other issues (family values, women's rights, etc...). Pure puff politics.

Personally I wish it would just go away as a political issue all together.

gut;1291940 wrote:The reverse is also true, wasting your time voting for a party because it's pro-choice.

It's nothing more than a way for both sides to score brownie points with their base. And it's a popular stump/debate issue because it's mostly opinion with no real verifiable right or wrong answer. It's mostly a segway into other issues (family values, women's rights, etc...). Pure puff politics.

Personally I wish it would just go away as a political issue all together.

Completely agreed, sir.

I've heard plenty of people say I'm not voting Republican b/c they'll outlaw abortion.. no they won't.. will never happen.

Just like my MIL taking offense to me saying pro-life is a pointless policy. It really is.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1291942 wrote:Completely agreed, sir.

You can throw gay marriage into that, as well. Although I think it's a bit silly and ineffective to have different laws for that in different states.

Like I said, though, talking policy (and communicating it effectively) is hard. I think that's why these remain "key" issues so the lightweights can have something to pontificate about.

gut;1291940 wrote:The reverse is also true, wasting your time voting for a party because it's pro-choice. But if we are to believe the fear Dems keep pumping women with of it being overturned, then maybe it's not such an unreasonable position for people to think it could be overturned?

It's nothing more than a way for both sides to score brownie points with their base. And it's a popular stump/debate issue because it's mostly opinion with no real verifiable right or wrong answer. It's mostly a segway into other issues (family values, women's rights, etc...). Pure puff politics.

Personally I wish it would just go away as a political issue all together.

I agree with this.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1291945 wrote:I've heard plenty of people say I'm not voting Republican b/c they'll outlaw abortion.. no they won't.. will never happen.

Never should happen. Health and socio-economic consequences that I think a lot of people ignore. And so what, they just go to Canada.

Stem cell research. Now there's just an ignorant Repub position (hopefully this latest development renders it moot).

Single-issue voting is on the whole pretty stupid....regardless of the issue.

fish82;1291963 wrote:Single-issue voting is on the whole pretty stupid

As are a lot of people.

I know the Dems pound it pretty hard and effectively with women's rights, but I wonder if abortion is REALLY that critical of an issue on the right. The far right, the bible thumpers maybe...but I think the GOP makes a bigger deal out of it than it really is to its base. It's not like people are still running around bombing abortion clinics.

I wonder what would really happen if the GOP distanced itself from the issue and took a lot of the "war on women" momentum out of Dem sails.

gut;1291966 wrote:As are a lot of people.

I know the Dems pound it pretty hard and effectively with women's rights, but I wonder if abortion is REALLY that critical of an issue on the right. The far right, the bible thumpers maybe...but I think the GOP makes a bigger deal out of it than it really is to its base. It's not like people are still running around bombing abortion clinics.

I wonder what would really happen if the GOP distanced itself from the issue and took a lot of the "war on women" momentum out of Dem sails.

It's barely been in the top 10 of the "issues that people care about" lists for the past two cycles. You're correct..."reproductive rights" and abortion are just a couple of ball bats both sides use to club each other with.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1291945 wrote:I've heard plenty of people say I'm not voting Republican b/c they'll outlaw abortion.. no they won't.. will never happen.

Just like my MIL taking offense to me saying pro-life is a pointless policy. It really is.

Pointless in such that it will never be overturned, but not pointless in such that things like partial birth abortions should (and are) outlawed.

However, I will agree, it is pointless in a sense that it will never be overturned, but pro-life is not a pointless moral standard to have as a person.

The debate has gone way beyond "Pro-life" vs. "Pro-choice". That ship sailed a long time ago.

Now we have a party and candidates supporting the legality of partial-birth abortion, a heinous and barbaric practice by any standard, and one which really lacks any reference to health or socio-economic issues. Or allowing tweeners to have access to abortion facilities across state lines without parental notification. Or a then-state senator (Obama) voting against a measure that would require medical care and attention given to babies outside the womb who survived abortion attempts. Stuff like that.

While I have strong feelings on the subject, I agree it's not a main issue in this campaign, and it's not wise to allow one issue to determine how you vote. But at the same time I also don't think a civil society needs to automatically roll over and pretend issues like I mentioned above don't exist.

gut;1291950 wrote: Stem cell research. Now there's just an ignorant Repub position (hopefully this latest development renders it moot).

If you're talking about harvesting cells from placentas, after-birth, etc., then I agree. If you're talking about aborting babies to harvest their stem cells, then it is a larger issue. Why is a person's life on the oxygen-side of the vagina more important than a life on the womb-side?

While I agree outlawing abortion entirely is highly likely to never happen, I do like the heartbeat-bill in Ohio. I also believe partial-birth abortion should be illegal. If you think it's no big deal, watch a video of one being done and let me know if your mind is changed.

I have to agree with BG and Jihay....there are still pro-life issues out there and a candidate that supports those would be more to my liking. It's not a deal breaker for me...but there are a lot of single issue voters.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1291937 wrote:...
That's why if you vote for a party b/c they are pro-life, you are wasting your time.

????

Views on abortion for candidates are asked not as a position on an issue that can be impacted by a politician but rather as a personality and ideological determination.

Voting for someone who reflects your views and beliefs would hardly be a waste of your time.

Con_Alma;1292429 wrote:????

Views on abortion for candidates are asked not as a position on an issue that can be impacted by a politician but rather as a personality and ideological determination.

Voting for someone who reflects your views and beliefs would hardly be a waste of your time.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's a waste of time b/c it's a non-issue in the real world.
So someone is pro-life. Great. He will do absolutely nothing about it making it a moot point.

HitsRus;1292254 wrote:I have to agree with BG and Jihay....there are still pro-life issues out there and a candidate that supports those would be more to my liking. It's not a deal breaker for me...

I agree.

Saying that abortion is not a political issue and should not be an element of why one should or should not cast a vote for a candidate is turning a blind eye to a very sensitive moral issue for millions of Americans.

I generally avoid posting on abortion threads because it's a topic that invokes so much passion in me that I sometimes have a difficult time maintaining my cool.

I think it's a probably a good idea right now that Romney has chosen to shy away from the issue. Most pro-lifers I know are more concerned right now with getting Obama the hell out of the WH than worrying about Romney's stance on abortion.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1292430 wrote:????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's a waste of time b/c it's a non-issue in the real world.
So someone is pro-life. Great. He will do absolutely nothing about it making it a moot point.

It's not about him doing something about itas much as it is an indication of the individual. It's not moot and it matters. The proof is the many people that turn to it as an influence on their vote.

Con_Alma;1292432 wrote:It's not about him doing something about itas much as it is an indication of the individual. It's not moot and it matters. The proof is the many simple people that turn to it as an influence on their vote.

fify

Neither the topic of abortion nor a person's vote is simplistic in any manner.

Typical of the elitist left to cast people who don't agree with them as 'simpllistic'. Yeah, that's a group that really understands tolerance.

HitsRus;1292443 wrote:Typical of the elitist left to cast people who don't agree with them as 'simpllistic'. Yeah, that's a group that really understands tolerance.

Yeah except that I am against abortion. But history also tells me its a pointless issue to decidingly vote with b/c nothing will be done about it. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but if you vote for a candidate b/c they are pro-life or pro-choice, you have an overly simplistic mindset.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1292522 wrote:Yeah except that I am against abortion. But history also tells me its a pointless issue to decidingly vote with b/c nothing will be done about it. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but if you vote for a candidate b/c they are pro-life or pro-choice, you have an overly simplistic mindset.

If that's the case, than voting for either one of these two knuckleheads on almost any issue is pointless.

/paulbot'd

The problem with framing abortion as an issue of morality is that is deeply rooted in religion, which requires forcing your religious view on many people that are either atheists or not particularly devout.

And the other problem is either the fetus has the right to life or the women has complete control of her body. Yet everyone on both sides has identified plenty of exceptions and special circumstances. It's really either/or - the fetus' rights trump the woman's, regardless of how or why it was conceived, or it doesn't.

For that matter, if a woman really wanted to turn herself into a stem cell factory, then that is her right if you believe she controls her body.

gut - I'm outta this conversation as I can't stand it anymore. Like others, I don't typically get on abortion threads as they tend to really get me hot, as this one has done.