isadore;1250664 wrote:government creates corportions by chartering them and granting them the economic rights of a person.

What did you mean by them being artificially created as artificial entities? They have more economic rights than a person and more protections that a person. They are not the same.

isadore;1250663 wrote:because of being part of the ultimate power in a representative democracy you can participate and effect the law.

that doesn't mean I can do what I want as you previously posted. Participating doesn't mean you are able to do what you want as you previously posted.

An individual is not nor has it ever been the ultimate power in this country and therefore I can't do what I want as you previously posted.

Isadore doesn't hate corporations, she hates the people that run them. Isadore hates people.

Con_Alma;1250666 wrote:What did you mean by them being artificially created as artificial entities? They have more economic rights than a person and more protections that a person. They are not the same.

a corporation is not a person but because of government action they have the privileges of an economic person. Corporations are artifical entities.

Con_Alma;1250667 wrote:that doesn't mean I can do what I want as you previously posted. Participating doesn't mean you are able to do what you want as you previously posted.

An individual is not nor has it ever been the ultimate power in this country and therefore I can't do what I want as you previously posted.

as a citizen you are part of tje group that has the ultimate power in our nation. and you have the right to win these people to your views.

gut;1250675 wrote:Isadore doesn't hate corporations, she hates the people that run them. Isadore hates people.

gosh a ruddies, i distrust conscienceless artifical entities that have been given great economic and political power. of course there are some who claim to be for the people who try to minimize the aid to the needy in our nation.

isadore;1251722 wrote:a corporation is not a person but because of government action they have the privileges of an economic person. Corporations are artifical entities.

Of course thry are not a person. They are a corporation and in so being they have different protections and privileges than a person does. That's why people choose to incorporate. They are very real.

isadore;1251724 wrote:as a citizen you are part of tje group that has the ultimate power in our nation. and you have the right to win these people to your views.

Having the right doesn't change the fact that I cant do what I want like you previously posted.

Con_Alma;1251731 wrote:Of course thry are not a person. They are a corporation and in so being they have different protections and privileges than a person does. That's why people choose to incorporate. They are very real.

government gives corporations the economic privileges of people and then they charter them into being, they create these artifical entities that micmic a person economically.

Con_Alma;1251733 wrote:Having the right doesn't change the fact that I cant do what I want like you previously posted.

you are one of those people who are citizens of the united states, a group that have ultimate power over our nation.

isadore;1251833 wrote:government gives corporations the economic privileges of people and then they charter them into being, they create these artifical entities that micmic a person economically.

From a legal perspective they have been referred to as an artificial person but they are a very real entity as a corporation. They economic opportunities and legal obligations are very different between a corporation and a person.

isadore;1251836 wrote:you are one of those people who are citizens of the united states, a group that have ultimate power over our nation.

....and yet I can't do what I want as you previously posted.

isadore;1251722 wrote:a corporation is not a person but because of government action they have the privileges of an economic person. Corporations are artifical entities.

And the legal liabilities.

If a burger flipper is fired due to racial discrimination, do they sue the $9.00/hour manageror do they sue McDonalds?

Funny how the mouth breathers don't mind corporations when they are being sued.

Con_Alma;1251934 wrote:From a legal perspective they have been referred to as an artificial person but they are a very real entity as a corporation. They economic opportunities and legal obligations are very different between a corporation and a person.

gosh a sole proprietorship would seem natural business organization, no need for government to create them, as with most partnerships. corporations are given privileges by government that micmic an economic person and then chartered by government. They are soulless, conscienceless entities created by government and for our protection be closely regulated for government.

Con_Alma;1251935 wrote:....and yet I can't do what I want as you previously posted.

gosh you are part of the group with ultimate power in our representative democracy. and you have the power to influence your fellow members of that group.

Manhattan Buckeye;1251977 wrote:And the legal liabilities.

If a burger flipper is fired due to racial discrimination, do they sue the $9.00/hour manageror do they sue McDonalds?

Funny how the mouth breathers don't mind corporations when they are being sued.

you take the good, you take the bad.

isadore;1252000 wrote:gosh you are part of the group with ultimate power in our representative democracy. and you have the power to influence your fellow members of that group.

Even doing so I can't do what I want like you previously posted.

isadore;1251998 wrote:gosh a sole proprietorship would seem natural business organization, no need for government to create them, as with most partnerships. corporations are given privileges by government that micmic an economic person and then chartered by government. They are soulless, conscienceless entities created by government and for our protection be closely regulated for government.

It's not a need it's a want. Sole proprietorships, LLCs and all other registered corporate veil protected entities have very different protections and economic opportunities than an individual person. They are indeed soulless. They are very different than a person...but they are very real and hardly artificial.

Con_Alma;1252017 wrote:Even doing so I can't do what I want like you previously posted.

This thread makes my day. You keep throwing out the bait and isadore keeps taking it.

Con_Alma;1252017 wrote:Even doing so I can't do what I want like you previously posted.

you have the power to persuade people to support your laws.

Con_Alma;1252021 wrote:It's not a need it's a want. Sole proprietorships, LLCs and all other registered corporate veil protected entities have very different protections and economic opportunities than an individual person. They are indeed soulless. They are very different than a person...but they are very real and hardly artificial.

corporations are created by government with privileges given them by government. they are artifical creations of government who are given the privileges of an economic person.

The govt doesn't create corporations at all. It's nothing more than a classification subject to certain rules, laws and taxation. The PEOPLE organizing a business decide how to structure their business and how it will be classified. An LLC, one of the most common form of business structures, is not even a recognized tax class by the IRS.

Sorry, but the govt doesn't "create" these organizations, the owners do by checking a box, essentially. The implication is without the govt these organizations don't exist, and that's flat wrong. The govt doesn't go thru a process of saying "ok, you're business is an LLC....yours is a LLP....yours is C-Corp....yours is an S-Corp". The govt doesn't create it, the shareholders do and then register it for recognition.

There's also such a thing as an unregistered corporation. It's a corporation, and it exists, but the govt has absolutely nothing to do with its existence.

isadore;1252437 wrote:corporations are created by government with privileges given them by government. they are artifical creations of government who are given the privileges of an economic person.

Artificial creations of government? So Apple, IBM, Shell Oil, the Dallas Cowboys, Ford, United Airlines, NBC, Sara Lee, Wal Mart, etc. were all created by the government? Please elaborate....this should be a hoot. :rolleyes:

gut;1252446 wrote: Sorry, but the govt doesn't "create" these organizations, the owners do by checking a box, essentially. The implication is without the govt these organizations don't exist, and that's flat wrong. The govt doesn't go thru a process of saying "ok, you're business is an LLC....yours is a LLP....yours is C-Corp....yours is an S-Corp". The govt doesn't create it, the shareholders do and then register it for recognition.

The government doesn't create the organizations, but it created whatever form they choose to set up their organization. They "check the box" for the entity that best shields them from taxes and personal liability. Obviously such a thing would not exist in a free society, as it takes the threat of government violence to collect taxes and to shield someone from personal liability.

Cleveland Buck;1252755 wrote:The government doesn't create the organizations, but it created whatever form they choose to set up their organization. They "check the box" for the entity that best shields them from taxes and personal liability. Obviously such a thing would not exist in a free society, as it takes the threat of government violence to collect taxes and to shield someone from personal liability.

Corporations, derived from a latin word for "body of people", would still exist without government. There are also many business reasons to have them, and actually they would exist fully within the realm of business law to address a variety of issues. The government basically came into play to add some uniformity, especially across borders, and to assess taxes.

Because, at the end of the day, a corporation is nothing more than a group of people chartering together to operate under certain rules and laws, both with customers and themselves. To say the govt creates a corporation would imply stripping or denying the registration means the business wouldn't exist, which is absurd. But for purposes of conducting more efficient business, the govt forces businesses to structure in known and consistent ways. Trade and accreditation groups do much the same to ensure members adhere to certain standards.