http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8056698/ex-usc-trojans-star-safety-kevin-ellison-says-god-drove-arson

Kevin Ellison, once one of the top defensive backs in the nation for the USC Trojans before being sidelined by a knee injury as a senior, has been arrested on federal arson charges after he reportedly told investigators he set his bed ablaze with a marijuana-filled cigar because "God" told him to.

Still think religion is a good thing? Hopefully this guy rots in prison for the rest of his life so that our legal system doesn't start getting bogged down with irrational acts being justified because of a belief in a deity who's basically existence has never and will never be proven.

God wills it!

I love Jesus.

sleeper;1201313 wrote:http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8056698/ex-usc-trojans-star-safety-kevin-ellison-says-god-drove-arson



Still think religion is a good thing? Hopefully this guy rots in prison for the rest of his life so that our legal system doesn't start getting bogged down with irrational acts being justified because of a belief in a deity who's basically existence has never and will never be proven.

What does this have to do with religion? I could light my house on fire and claim god told me to do it. And I don't necessarily believe in god and I am certainly not religious. Huge reach to blame this on religion. Huge reach.

justincredible;1201330 wrote:What does this have to do with religion? I could light my house on fire and claim god told me to do it. And I don't necessarily believe in god and I am certainly not religious. Huge reach to blame this on religion. Huge reach.

This is what sleeper specializes in.

Someday I'll have to watch this movie. Read a review that says it's a pretty neat horror/weird kinda flick.

justincredible;1201330 wrote:What does this have to do with religion? I could light my house on fire and claim god told me to do it. And I don't necessarily believe in god and I am certainly not religious. Huge reach to blame this on religion. Huge reach.

If religion was laughed at like Harry Potter and Aesop's Fables, which really are no different in reality, then the court system could make the person held accountable for his own actions. What a concept! $10 says he gets out of it because he's a "good christian boy" or some shit. He needs to be a in psych ward for the rest of his life; he can take the pope with him too.

ZZZZzzzzz ........ You broke me, I no longer support this Jesus/God character.

#sleeperwins

I doubt Jesus really told him to do this.

John 3:16

It was John the Baptist who told him to do this. Its obvious

sleeper;1201313 wrote:http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/8056698/ex-usc-trojans-star-safety-kevin-ellison-says-god-drove-arson


Still think religion is a good thing?

The guy is a habitual drug user, started the arson in question with a "marijuana-filled" cigar and you think God/religion is the problem?

The good money says this guy was high as a kite. He can blame it on whatever he wants, but I don't think blaming the happenstance target of his blame dart is even a rational response to this story.

sleeper;1201313 wrote:Hopefully this guy rots in prison for the rest of his life so that our legal system doesn't start getting bogged down with irrational acts being justified because of a belief in a deity who's basically existence has never and will never be proven.

First of all, did anyone die? If not, then your desire for him to "rot in prison for the rest of his life" appears to be misplaced angst ... as though you have an ax to grind before finding a reason to grind it.

And who says the court system is going to get "bogged down" with anything? His religious freedoms end where someone else's person or property begin. Said property was burnt down. It's pretty clear-cut, and this isn't going to throw a monkeywrench into that.

You're seeing what you want to see, and it's in no way remotely close to reality. I thought you considered yourself the logical one, grounded in reality. This rant doesn't reflect that at all.

sleeper;1201341 wrote:If religion was laughed at like Harry Potter and Aesop's Fables, which really are no different in reality, then the court system could make the person held accountable for his own actions.

First, if he was as high as it would seem, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for him to think that Harry told him to torch it.

Second, the fact that he blames it on God changes nothing, whether God is 100% real or 100% imaginary. There's not a religious person out there who wouldn't suggest that this guy is held accountable for his actions. Again, you're railing against something that isn't there ... a strawman fallacy (perpetuating an illogical conclusion) at best.

sleeper;1201341 wrote:What a concept! $10 says he gets out of it because he's a "good christian boy" or some shit.

First, the only time the "good person" defense has ever worked is when it has convinced people that a person didn't commit the crime. It has never, to my knowledge, been used specifically with religious affiliation, nor has it ever to my knowledge been used to legally EXCUSE a person of the legal ramifications of his actions. Your assertion here is baseless, and deserves zero credibility.

You're smart, sleeper, but your position on this is infantile and completely irrational.

Oh, and second, he has multiple drug offenses. I doubt a court or jury in this country will see him as a "good Christian boy." Not sure how you could have even conjured that up, but based on your railing in this thread, your foundation for this was off from the start.

sleeper;1201341 wrote:He needs to be a in psych ward for the rest of his life ...

No disagreement about being in a psych ward (or maybe a court-ordered intense rehabilitation facility), but if he becomes healthy, I wouldn't want him there for the rest of his life. Those would be your and my tax dollars taking care of him, and no liberty-loving, freedom-championing, rationally-thinking American would ever endorse such a thing.

I think Sleeper is on to something here...

O-Trap;1201441 wrote:The guy is a habitual drug user, started the arson in question with a "marijuana-filled" cigar and you think God/religion is the problem?

The good money says this guy was high as a kite. He can blame it on whatever he wants, but I don't think blaming the happenstance target of his blame dart is even a rational response to this story.



First of all, did anyone die? If not, then your desire for him to "rot in prison for the rest of his life" appears to be misplaced angst ... as though you have an ax to grind before finding a reason to grind it.

And who says the court system is going to get "bogged down" with anything? His religious freedoms end where someone else's person or property begin. Said property was burnt down. It's pretty clear-cut, and this isn't going to throw a monkeywrench into that.

You're seeing what you want to see, and it's in no way remotely close to reality. I thought you considered yourself the logical one, grounded in reality. This rant doesn't reflect that at all.



First, if he was as high as it would seem, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for him to think that Harry told him to torch it.

Second, the fact that he blames it on God changes nothing, whether God is 100% real or 100% imaginary. There's not a religious person out there who wouldn't suggest that this guy is held accountable for his actions. Again, you're railing against something that isn't there ... a strawman fallacy (perpetuating an illogical conclusion) at best.



First, the only time the "good person" defense has ever worked is when it has convinced people that a person didn't commit the crime. It has never, to my knowledge, been used specifically with religious affiliation, nor has it ever to my knowledge been used to legally EXCUSE a person of the legal ramifications of his actions. Your assertion here is baseless, and deserves zero credibility.

You're smart, sleeper, but your position on this is infantile and completely irrational.

Oh, and second, he has multiple drug offenses. I doubt a court or jury in this country will see him as a "good Christian boy." Not sure how you could have even conjured that up, but based on your railing in this thread, your foundation for this was off from the start.



No disagreement about being in a psych ward (or maybe a court-ordered intense rehabilitation facility), but if he becomes healthy, I wouldn't want him there for the rest of his life. Those would be your and my tax dollars taking care of him, and no liberty-loving, freedom-championing, rationally-thinking American would ever endorse such a thing.

I read this 5 times....everyone else did too I assume.

He must have been mistaken... since it involved fire, I would have went with the more believable excuse of "The devil made me do it."

Did he say which "God?" Zeus? Odin? Mars (the badass god of war, after all ... sounds violent)? Anubis?

Maybe Loki? Arson could fit within the bounds of "mischief."

Or, since he lit the fire with a marijuana-filled cigar, we can instead just infer that he he was probably stoned, and thus, not thinking clearly. That sounds like the logical conclusion, but I suppose I'm not our logic expert, because I'm a theist (implied ad hominem there ).

oh look a religion thread created by sleeper...

sleeper;1201341 wrote: $10 says he gets out of it because he's a "good christian boy" or some shit.

let's up the stakes to an iPad.

sleeper;1201313 wrote:...

Still think religion is a good thing?....

Yes.

O-Trap;1201647 wrote:Did he say which "God?" Zeus? Odin? Mars (the badass god of war, after all ... sounds violent)? Anubis?

Maybe Loki? Arson could fit within the bounds of "mischief."

Or, since he lit the fire with a marijuana-filled cigar, we can instead just infer that he he was probably stoned, and thus, not thinking clearly. That sounds like the logical conclusion, but I suppose I'm not our logic expert, because I'm a theist (implied ad hominem there ).

Apologetics will not dissuade sleeper from his obsession with God-bashing. Spiritual warfare is clearly raging within. The denial and ridicule is a good thing because the conversation cannot be denied.

believer;1201719 wrote:Apologetics will not dissuade sleeper from his obsession with God-bashing. Spiritual warfare is clearly raging within. The denial and ridicule is a good thing because the conversation cannot be denied.

I personally hate the term "Apologetics," but only because of how it is used. Too many view it as a "way to defend your faith," but that usually comes with an illogical premise: that one should hold a conclusion without already having logical construct that got you there.

I'm sure sleeper won't be dissuaded. It's okay.

O-Trap;1201800 wrote:I personally hate the term "Apologetics," but only because of how it is used. Too many view it as a "way to defend your faith," but that usually comes with an illogical premise: that one should hold a conclusion without already having logical construct that got you there.

haha Fair enough. Ravi Zacharias might "think" differently.

justincredible;1201330 wrote:What does this have to do with religion? I could light my house on fire and claim god told me to do it. And I don't necessarily believe in god and I am certainly not religious. Huge reach to blame this on religion. Huge reach.

I'm too lazy to read through all of the replies to see if this was already said, but even if you're not religious you're probably using that defense to get a dumbass overly religious judge or jury to feel sympathetic and let you off easier, or appeal to that one retarded jury member and hang a jury.

I'm surprised this defense isn't used more often...

believer;1201871 wrote:haha Fair enough. Ravi Zacharias might "think" differently.

My views differ from Ravi's on more than just that. Not a bad thing to disagree, though.