justincredible;1141172 wrote:But you didn't say atheists are just as bad as religious folks. You said bible thumpers.

That was my point though. Not all religious people are extreme bible thumpers.

Some act in a way that if you like the bible/worship God that you're a bible thumping, gullible idiot.

I can't stand the extremists on either side. I don't care what you believe in, just don't pass it off as your way or no way.

sleeper;1141126 wrote:And then you have this cop out right here. Thank the Lord that we have people who don't believe in the **** in the bible otherwise we'd never cure any diseases and we'd live in a bubble full of ignorance(world is flat, flood took place, earth is 6500 years old, prayers instead of vaccines, etc).

Keep being delusional and let the atheists fix all of our problems.

sleeper;1141131 wrote:No they wouldn't. Remember, god knows all and god says the Earth is flat. God heals the sick, no need for medicine just pray. Oh, you got medicine? You're messing with God's plan.

A lot of scientists are RINO, because they know there is a negative stereotype against atheists and its hard for atheists to come out of the closet so to speak for fear of unnecessary backlash. Like I said, if you believe in any religion, you're delusional, seek help.

A professed atheist capitializing alleged deities? Please explain.

It's such an insane argument. No one knows. When I'm high I think "man, there is just no fucking way religion is true and all that shit about god/jesus is just retarded" and when I'm sober I think "it could be true, but the bible and it's stories are just retarded"

So in conclusion, I'm just going to drink, party, smoke pot(when allowed), and not donate money to church. If god really is true, I'll just say I apologize and hope he lets me in.

I don't donate money to any religion, church, or specific body of believers.

I haven't for many years. I would also encourage many others not to do it. I don't think it is Biblical.

vball10set;1141210 wrote:A professed atheist capitializing alleged deities? Please explain.

I use the capital letters because if there is a god, then its only one true god. Which religion is correct? I'd argue none of them are, they are businesses designed to capitalize on the poor, the weak minded, and the stupid.

sleeper;1141501 wrote:I use the capital letters because if there is a god, then its only one true god. Which religion is correct? I'd argue none of them are, they are businesses designed to capitalize on the poor, the weak minded, and the stupid.

McDonald's has it down to a science.

Skyhook79;1141502 wrote:McDonald's has it down to a science.

yeah - but I can hold, see, and eat a burger. There is proof they exist. No proof god exists.

Skyhook79;1141502 wrote:McDonald's has it down to a science.

I agree with you. It's EZ money, just like religion.

Raw Dawgin' it;1141510 wrote:yeah - but I can hold, see, and eat a burger. There is proof they exist. No proof god exists.

You cannot prove that someone does not feel, hear, or talk to God. You cannot prove that God is not in the hearts and minds of believers.

So, why couldn't that be "proof" enough that God does exist?

OSH;1141547 wrote:You cannot prove that someone does not feel, hear, or talk to God. You cannot prove that God is not in the hearts and minds of believers.

So, why couldn't that be "proof" enough that God does exist?

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Otherwise, I could simply say anything I want exists(ie. an invisible pink unicorn) and since you cannot prove me wrong, it must exist and it is correct. Do you see the faulty logic that only religious believers use to justify their erroneous beliefs?

sleeper;1141501 wrote:I use the capital letters because if there is a god, then its only one true god. Which religion is correct? I'd argue none of them are, they are businesses designed to capitalize on the poor, the weak minded, and the stupid.

It was my understanding that there is only one true God. It's that different groups choose to call him/worship him in different ways.

Also I've never given money to my church, and they make money off of it. The money we give goes to the various bills (utility, mortgage...), funding for special projects (such as an industrial kitchen to used to prepare food for gatherings and charitable works), donations to less fortunate families in need (such as struggling to cover funeral costs of a dead relative), and donations for people to attend an event (such as camp or a sporting event).

Sure, our pastor receives a small compensation for his work and being "on call" for the congregation, but that surely isn't his main source of income. Actually, our pastor is a neurologist.<----o

sleeper;1141553 wrote:The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Otherwise, I could simply say anything I want exists(ie. an invisible pink unicorn) and since you cannot prove me wrong, it must exist and it is correct. Do you see the faulty logic that only religious believers use to justify their erroneous beliefs?

So, prove to me that you have no belief in God.

If I have to prove to you that I feel, hear, and talk to God. You have to prove to me that you do not.

bigkahuna;1141555 wrote:It was my understanding that there is only one true God. It's that different groups choose to call him/worship him in different ways.

Sorry, but no. There are polytheistic religions as well as garbage like Scientology that believe in souls implanted in someone's body. Religion is a sham.

As far as them not making money of it, non-profits DO make money, they just call it surplus instead of profit and redistribute it in higher salaries for the people who run the organization. The charity work the church does is just free marketing for the church as well as a way to justify the erroneous belief that they are not a business making profit by exploiting the poor and stupid.

bigkahuna;1141556 wrote:So, prove to me that you have no belief in God.

If I have to prove to you that I feel, hear, and talk to God. You have to prove to me that you do not.

Once again, this is the logical pitfall that all believers fall into. The burden of proof is not on me, it is on you. You are making a claim, you are not being clever, you would get laughed at any debate if you tried to use this logic; but since it regards religion and believers have the intelligence of a pigeon, apparently being illogical is allowed.

If you do truly feel and talk to god, seek professional help. You are delusional and you have voices in your head.

Furthermore, the fact that believers think their little "oh, but you can't prove that he doesn't exist" is being clever, or is the ultimate trump card, just reinforces the idea that believers are stupid. They are dumb. Period.

sleeper;1141558 wrote:Once again, this is the logical pitfall that all believers fall into. The burden of proof is not on me, it is on you. You are making a claim, you are not being clever, you would get laughed at any debate if you tried to use this logic; but since it regards religion and believers have the intelligence of a pigeon, apparently being illogical is allowed.

If you do truly feel and talk to god, seek professional help. You are delusional and you have voices in your head.

So, I have to prove to you that I believe something. However, you don't have to prove to me that you don't believe something? How does that make sense?

sleeper;1141553 wrote:The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Otherwise, I could simply say anything I want exists(ie. an invisible pink unicorn) and since you cannot prove me wrong, it must exist and it is correct. Do you see the faulty logic that only religious believers use to justify their erroneous beliefs?

Yes, but the pink unicorn either does exist or does not exist. Who can make the better argument doesn't change that basic fact. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

bigkahuna;1141563 wrote:So, I have to prove to you that I believe something. However, you don't have to prove to me that you don't believe something? How does that make sense?

You don't have to prove your beliefs, but you do have to prove that your belief is correct.

I don't believe in anything. How can I prove that to you? I don't know the answers. Apparently, you are claiming to know how the Earth was created, how we were created, what happens after we die, etc. Prove it! How does it feel to live your life based on a fraud?

sleeper;1141557 wrote:Sorry, but no. There are polytheistic religions as well as garbage like Scientology that believe in souls implanted in someone's body. Religion is a sham.

As far as them not making money of it, non-profits DO make money, they just call it surplus instead of profit and redistribute it in higher salaries for the people who run the organization. The charity work the church does is just free marketing for the church as well as a way to justify the erroneous belief that they are not a business making profit by exploiting the poor and stupid.

In the end, every religion in existence has a higher being that they pray to. How do you know that this isn't the same being just worshiped/studied in different ways?

Just like with everything in life, there are different ways to go about it, with the end result being the same. Religion is no different. And I for one don't see Scientology as religion but more like a club. Show me another religious sect where it's required to donate money in order to be accepted into it.

I gave examples of how my church uses it's money, but I never said that I actually gave money to my church. I for one don't feel that it's a requirement to give a tithing to get into heaven or to be seen in a positive light by others. Sure, I'll throw in a few bucks, if I have some in my wallet. I usually don't carry cash though.

Also, we receive a monthly expenditure report from our church to see how much they got in offerings compared to the monthly spending for the things I posted (bills and what not). The "special" projects and everything else aren't even factored into it, and the church never sees that money unless it's for something like buying a new stove.

So, you really have no idea what you're talking about when you say that the church is turning a profit. Do some? Probably, but you should know better than to paint with a broad brush, but you probably don't.

queencitybuckeye;1141567 wrote:Yes, but the pink unicorn either does exist or does not exist. Who can make the better argument doesn't change that basic fact. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

I'm not claiming the pink unicorn exists or doesn't exist. I'm saying I don't know if it does. Believers are making claims and trying to pass them off as truth with no proof and no evidence and are trying to place the burden of "disproving" on the person who is making no claim. I'm glad rational logical people who have discovered and enhanced the lives of billions of people by searching for the truth rather than just believing in something. It's intellectual fraud to confuse beliefs, which are superficial, irrational, with truth.

sleeper;1141569 wrote:You don't have to prove your beliefs, but you do have to prove that your belief is correct.

I don't believe in anything. How can I prove that to you? I don't know the answers. Apparently, you are claiming to know how the Earth was created, how we were created, what happens after we die, etc. Prove it! How does it feel to live your life based on a fraud?

No, I really don't have to prove my belief is correct. The same way that you don't have to prove that your belief is correct. You believe there is no God. I believe that there is.

bigkahuna;1141570 wrote:In the end, every religion in existence has a higher being that they pray to. How do you know that this isn't the same being just worshiped/studied in different ways?

Just like with everything in life, there are different ways to go about it, with the end result being the same. Religion is no different. And I for one don't see Scientology as religion but more like a club. Show me another religious sect where it's required to donate money in order to be accepted into it.

I gave examples of how my church uses it's money, but I never said that I actually gave money to my church. I for one don't feel that it's a requirement to give a tithing to get into heaven or to be seen in a positive light by others. Sure, I'll throw in a few bucks, if I have some in my wallet. I usually don't carry cash though.

Also, we receive a monthly expenditure report from our church to see how much they got in offerings compared to the monthly spending for the things I posted (bills and what not). The "special" projects and everything else aren't even factored into it, and the church never sees that money unless it's for something like buying a new stove.

So, you really have no idea what you're talking about when you say that the church is turning a profit. Do some? Probably, but you should know better than to paint with a broad brush, but you probably don't.

Buddhism trumps your first point. How does it feel to be wrong in your first initial point?

Scientology is no more cult like than any other religion. They need more money to catch up with the trillions in wealth other established cults(ahem, religions) have. One day, there is no doubt Scientology will no longer require money to operate, but for now they need money. How does it feel to be apart of a cult? You may not give money to it, but a lot of people do.

Sorry for speaking in generalities, you can find the exception to anything. Painting things with a broad brush is the only way to have a rational logical discussion, because like I said anyone can find an exception to anything. My apologies for using the general rule and not the exception to make a valid point. How does it feel to not have an understanding how basic human interaction and discussion takes place?

bigkahuna;1141572 wrote:No, I really don't have to prove my belief is correct. The same way that you don't have to prove that your belief is correct. You believe there is no God. I believe that there is.

That's fine. It does bother me when people take the next step and claim they "know" God exists. You do not know, you can not know.

bigkahuna;1141572 wrote:No, I really don't have to prove my belief is correct. The same way that you don't have to prove that your belief is correct. You believe there is no God. I believe that there is.

I never said I believe there is no god. I said I don't know. You don't have to prove your belief is correct, you can believe in whatever you want. But you do have to prove your belief is correct if you try to pass it off as true. Your beliefs are not true unless you can prove it. This is how the world works, otherwise we'd be stuck in ignorance forever. How does it feel to root for the side of ignorance?

Tell you what, next time you get sick just pray to be healed. Let me know how that works out for you, you hypocrite.

sleeper;1141575 wrote:I never said I believe there is no god. I said I don't know. You don't have to prove your belief is correct, you can believe in whatever you want. But you do have to prove your belief is correct if you try to pass it off as true. Your beliefs are not true unless you can prove it. This is how the world works, otherwise we'd be stuck in ignorance forever. How does it feel to root for the side of ignorance?

Tell you what, next time you get sick just pray to be healed. Let me know how that works out for you, you hypocrite.

I don't take medicine when I'm sick. So, I'm not a hypocrite. I just let it go until I feel better. I think I usually say something along the lines of "Please God, make this fever go away" or headache... That usually works out good for me.