Hey guys, I'd thought I'd make a thread for all the Browns fans to discuss the team currently, how we expect to finish the year, and then get into coaches and the draft.

First off, great win last night. I finally was able to sit down and actually enjoy watching the Browns play. These guys played with heart and intensity, Rob Ryan was brilliant.

Now, there are some big things to talk about imo.

1) How do you see the season finishing? Cleveland has three winnable games with KC, OAK, and JAX.

2) Keep Mangini or to not keep Mangini? I absolutely love Rob Ryan, Cleveland needs to keep this guy around. But Daboll hasn't been spectacular and Mangini is 2-11 (but with a rough team). Thoughts? Who would you like to see brought in to run the FO?

3) Any surprise players you'd like to keep on the team for next season? I was very happy to see Matt Roth in a Browns uniform, he played well last night and I think he could be a surprise player. Can Jennings be a viable option at RB or Moore at TE making some nice plays the last two weeks?

4) The draft. What do you think Cleveland should do with their picks?

In my blog, I'll be covering all of this stuff over the course of the off-season.

It's hard to say what they should do with all of their picks right now because the draft is so deep, it's really hard to pinpoint any position, or player to a specific point.

With that being said, in my blog that's in my signature, I have a top 60 released.

I also think we have a legit chance to beat all 3 of the next teams we play. Jacksonville is the worst team in the league with a winning record. KC is terrible defensively, and don't do much offensively. Oakland, is well, Oakland, but they did beat Cincy, and Pitt.

Moore looks like he's going to be a solid option at TE. I don't think he's a fantastic option for the future, but it'd be a position that maybe we can wait to draft for.

Roth looks very good, as he did with Miami before they released him for undisclosed reasons. I'd like to hold onto Roth, and improve the DL, ILB, and grab a CB and 1-2 safeties.

This team needs A LOT of work.

If they keep playing the way they have been, they very well could win there last three games. While i'd love to see them win, i'm not sure if it's worth the draft position. They've got to go defense with there first couple picks. With the first pick, i'd like to see them take either a DT, LB, or S, depending on who the best available player is.

I'd give Mangini another year. This team has the least amount of talent of any team i've ever seen. If he doesn't perform next year, then give him the boot. But, whether he stays or goes next year, they better find a way to keep Rob Ryan here. The defense has played pretty well, considering their starting a LB who's been in Cleveland less than two weeks, a WR playing safety, and our best DL out with injury. No matter who's out there, he gets the most out of them.

Not sure if i'd use a pick on a RB, unless it's in the later rounds (3,4,5) and it's an absolute steal. Jennings, Harrison, and a healthy James Davis should be able to make at least a somewhat productive backfield.

1. I see the Browns beating KC and having a shot at JAX, but I can't see them beating OAK unless they just don't show up. 3-4 wins is only slightly worse than I expected from this team with this coach.

2. Mangini goes, Daboll goes, Ryan stays only if the new coach wants him. Hell, I think I would be ok with Ryan as the head coach. He at least brings some fire to the team and there is no question about his ability as a defensive mind. But, whoever comes in as head coach cannot be saddled with any holdovers not of his own selection.

3. I'm not sure he is a surprise, but Costanzo needs to be on this team next year. Jennings should stay but with the understanding that he will have to beat out others just to split time. He is not an every down back. Moore is serviceable for another year. There are too many other holes to fill. Roth is another I would like to see back next season, too.

4. Without knowing where they will pick, I would say that if Suh or Berry are on the board at any point, they MUST select one of them. These guys are sure things. In the second, there will be many impact players available. They need to be very wise and not reach like they seem to do every year. LG, ILB, CB, S, RB, and maybe QB should be the focus in this round. No way do they take a QB before the 2nd round...if at all. 3rd and fourth rounds could produce some serviceable backups and maybe even a starter. Adding depth will be important. The Browns have lacked this for years.

Sorry for all you who want Cleveland to lose so it maintains draft position: NO loss is worth getting high draft picks, and most certainly not a loss to Pittsburgh.

I don't want to be picking in the top 10. It is risky and usually costs way more cash than it's worth.

Roth, Moore and Jennings are a few nice "finds" since the team has been able to tap into practice squads and the waiver wires. I think all three are more than viable NFL players and should be signed.

As for Mangini: well, it's up to whomever Randy hires as his "czar" whether or not Mangini stays. If I have a vote, I say keep him. He's been able to keep this team fighting for wins despite a ridiculous number of defensive injuries and mounting losses. If he were truly the bad coach (and hated by players as the media tells us) he would have lost this team weeks ago.

That hasn't happened. And it's the sign of a good coach, and an experienced NFL coach, which is one reason I liked this hire when it happened. I'm tired of hiring coaches with no experience.

I hope some of the rumblings are accurate and someone gets hired soon by Randy. I'd like them to be onboard at least for a couple games to see how things are done so they can properly evaluate the current staff and remaining players before free agency and the draft.

For the first time in a long time, I actually have some hope that things may be turning in the right direction for this version of the Browns. I'd like to continue that trend and keep playing these young players to the end of the season, hoping they show enough talent to provide some energy going into next season.

With a ton of cap space available, and a few extra picks, if Randy makes the right hire there's no reason this team can't be very competitive as soon as next year.

I don't know why everyone wants to go defense, defense, defense right away with these picks. Our defense isn't that bad, it's just that when they're on the field for so long (due to the inept offense) they're gonna wear down towards the end of the game. I do think they need another corner opposite Eric Wright, and an upgrade at the LB position, but imo the defense will be fine the way it is (plus the addition of the CB and LB) with a decent offense.

But here's the thing, this draft is a defensive heavy draft as well as a QB heavy draft. If there was that stud RB every draft seems to have, I'd say you draft him...imagine what an explosive running back would do for this team, because the O-line is average at worst and that would take so much pressure off the young Brady Quinn. Jahvid Best, CJ Spiller, or Jonathon Dwyer will probably be the best RB in this draft, but I just can't see them being taken in the top 10 or so picks (whatever the Browns will have).

So here's what I say, assuming we get the # 5 pick, I say we take a stud LB or CB..either one will do just fine. Then with their next 11 picks you focus heavily on your offense. Get a stud WR with your second pick to go along side of Massaquoi and Robiskie next year. Get a Right Tackle after that, and then pile on some depth with your other 8 picks (both offense and defense).

devil1197 wrote: Hey guys, I'd thought I'd make a thread for all the Browns fans to discuss the team currently, how we expect to finish the year, and then get into coaches and the draft.

First off, great win last night. I finally was able to sit down and actually enjoy watching the Browns play. These guys played with heart and intensity, Rob Ryan was brilliant.

Now, there are some big things to talk about imo.

1) How do you see the season finishing? Cleveland has three winnable games with KC, OAK, and JAX.

2) Keep Mangini or to not keep Mangini? I absolutely love Rob Ryan, Cleveland needs to keep this guy around. But Daboll hasn't been spectacular and Mangini is 2-11 (but with a rough team). Thoughts? Who would you like to see brought in to run the FO?

3) Any surprise players you'd like to keep on the team for next season? I was very happy to see Matt Roth in a Browns uniform, he played well last night and I think he could be a surprise player. Can Jennings be a viable option at RB or Moore at TE making some nice plays the last two weeks?

4) The draft. What do you think Cleveland should do with their picks?

1.) I think we can win all three games, but I doubt it happens. I loved the intensity we came out with for 60 minutes last night, I just don't seeing us match that the next three weeks. Even as much as we DOMINATED defensively last night, we still had to play the full 60 to get the win. Jacksonville has a lot to play for, so unless they are out of the playoff hunt by week 17, I think we lose. I think the other two are possible, but we have to do better throwing the ball.

2.) Mangini should stay. He has taken a team with several "Me" players and turned it into a team of nice depth, role players that work hard every game. Did he draft well? No. Did he do the best he could in free agency? No. But after we address starting players on the offensive line, defensive line, and linebackers, we have a ton of depth in those positions. We have leadership, at least on the defensive side of the ball. I think if we can pick up 4-5 starter potential players, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 RT, 1 DE, 1 WR, the rest of the unit will be perfect for depth. Nobody expects these players to do well, and they are. the LB's have looked so good recently.

Daboll needs replaced. He is improving, but there's got to be someone better to fit that role. The wildcat worked yesterday, still his playcalling left the passing game hanging out to dry. Quinn threw some bad passes, threw a few that were potential big plays too. Just missed Moore on a couple middle routes, then the ball that just missed Vickers. Still though, it seemed we only threw on obvious passing downs, which isn't gonna bode too successful when the defense is gunning for that.

3.) Addressed earlier. A lot of the guys playing now should not be starters, but they are perfect for depth. In our first season, we got a ton of depth at various positions. There's no point in having 2 all world players if you don't have guys they can play with.

Defensive Line: Kenyon Coleman, Cj Mosely, Ahtyba Rubin, Robaire Smith, solid reserve players IMO. The guy we played yesterday, Schaefering, played pretty solid as well. I think Corey Williams has shown a lot of progress, but would like to get either a free agent or solid draft pick to anchor the d-line with he and Rogers starting.

LB's. Roth and Trusnik have been solid. I think they both are perfect against the run, and Trus has shown he can get to the passer at times too. Both have the athletic ability to play inside as well as outside. Maiava, as shocking as people will take this, I feel with time can take over D'Qwell's spot on this team and not lose a beat. He is better in coverage than Jackson, is becoming a good tackler, plays in space better I think. I would like to see us get another starting ILB, although Bowens has shown me a lot this season, playing mostly OLB of course. Wimbley seems to get better as an overall LB every game he plays, even if it doesn't show in the box score.

DB's. This is our glaring weakness defensively. McDonald, where the hell did he come from last night? He actually looked good. I think he is best suited as a nickel guy however. I think Wright is a good starting CB, Adams I like because of the versatility, Elam is not bad as a backup, but other than that, we need starting safeties, and I'd say a starting #2 CB at least. We have a ton of cap space and 11 draft picks to make it happen.

RB's. I think Cribbs needs to be used as a standard RB a little more frequently. He looked great running last night, as did Jennings. Jennings numbers dropped off later in the game, but i think that was largely due to the fact that the Steelers knew we were running the ball, and most of his late 3rd early 4th touches were called middle rushes, when Pitt had the box stacked. We know Davis was more of a power back coming out of college. Jennings looks to be that. Cribbs can do it all, and Harrison, well we didn't see much of him. I like the group we have, but would like to add another guy to the mix. I think a scat back would best suit our need at RB, Harrison just hasn't proven anything. If Leon Washington can recover from his injury, he would be perfect. He flourished under Mangini as a Jet, and obviously Mangini trusts him in the running game.

TE. Moore has really impressed me, even though he only had the two receptions last night. Both catches were awesome, he blocks well, he is smart, and he isn't afraid to go over the middle. I think we still need another body in there, someone who can be a potential receiving threat as well, but if Moore keeps showing up like he has the past two games, I think the starting gig is his.

WR. MoMass is going to be a legit player in this league. I think Robiskie, once given a chance, can be a solid #3 guy on any team, possibly a #2 here, but I'd like to see us land a playmaker at the position. Stuckey is a good slot option, not our biggest need, but definitely should not be overlooked.

OL. I would honestly like to see us grab two starting guards this offseason and move Steinbach to RT. He has the body for it, I think his abilities would be best used on the outside. There is a ton of talent in the upcoming draft at the guard positions, I think if we were ever to address it, this would be the year.

4.) DL, Secondary, LB, OL, RB, WR.
DL. Suh, Arthur Jones, Jared Odrick, Cameron Heyward (if he declares), Alex Carrington, Lamarr Houston, just to name a few potential DE's.
DB's. Reshad Jones, S, Eric Berry, S, Kurt Coleman, projected CB, Earl Thomas, FS, Joe Haden, Javier Arenas, CB, Perrish Cox, CB, Deandre McDaniel, S, Robert Vaughn, FS, Walter Thurmond, CB. Some early round projections, some later round guys, but these are some of the more talented ones I've seen.

LB. McClain, ILB, Micah Johnson, ILB, Daryl Washington, ILB, Sergio Kindle, OLB, Jerry Hughes, OLB, Brandon Graham, OLB, Obrien Schofield, OLB, Eric Norwood, either.

OL. Mike Iupati, G, Mike Johnson, G, John Jerry, G, Jon Asamoah, G, Vladamir Ducasse, G, Adam Ulatoski, RT, Gabe Carimi, RT.

RB. Joe McKnight, Dexter McCluster, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty

WR. There are a TON! Golden Tate, of course, Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, Naaman Roosevelt, Eric Decker, Brandon Lafell, etc.

I didn't name everyone I like, but this is a brief example of the direction I'd like us to take.

SportsAndLady wrote: I don't know why everyone wants to go defense, defense, defense right away with these picks. Our defense isn't that bad, it's just that when they're on the field for so long (due to the inept offense) they're gonna wear down towards the end of the game. I do think they need another corner opposite Eric Wright, and an upgrade at the LB position, but imo the defense will be fine the way it is (plus the addition of the CB and LB) with a decent offense.

But here's the thing, this draft is a defensive heavy draft as well as a QB heavy draft. If there was that stud RB every draft seems to have, I'd say you draft him...imagine what an explosive running back would do for this team, because the O-line is average at worst and that would take so much pressure off the young Brady Quinn. Jahvid Best, CJ Spiller, or Jonathon Dwyer will probably be the best RB in this draft, but I just can't see them being taken in the top 10 or so picks (whatever the Browns will have).

So here's what I say, assuming we get the # 5 pick, I say we take a stud LB or CB..either one will do just fine. Then with their next 11 picks you focus heavily on your offense. Get a stud WR with your second pick to go along side of Massaquoi and Robiskie next year. Get a Right Tackle after that, and then pile on some depth with your other 8 picks (both offense and defense).

I will agree with you that all defense is a bad idea, but I think they need to use early picks on the O-Line and defensive backs. No way do they use another early pick on WR. Massaquoi, Robiskie and Cribbs are good enough if you add a FA or two. No more rookies at skill positions, except for maybe stealing a top RB in the late 2nd or early 3rd.

Depth is key for this team, too. Ryan can only do so much with other teams' practice squad guys. Let's get him some guys he can rotate in and out more often. We can't just assume the offense will be better after a draft and some FAs.

BCBulldog wrote: I will agree with you that all defense is a bad idea, but I think they need to use early picks on the O-Line and defensive backs. No way do they use another early pick on WR. Massaquoi, Robiskie and Cribbs are good enough if you add a FA or two. No more rookies at skill positions, except for maybe stealing a top RB in the late 2nd or early 3rd.

I disagree strongly about the WRs. You cannot have much optimism for an offense who's WR's are a guy who had a decent rookie year, a guy who has what? 3 catches on the entire year?, and a special teams player who has been converted to WR and not really succeeded at all.

You need a guy like Marty Gilliard or Arrellious Benn in the 2nd round who can add some depth and be a consistent WR threat to go along with the other guys.

SportsAndLady wrote:

BCBulldog wrote: I will agree with you that all defense is a bad idea, but I think they need to use early picks on the O-Line and defensive backs. No way do they use another early pick on WR. Massaquoi, Robiskie and Cribbs are good enough if you add a FA or two. No more rookies at skill positions, except for maybe stealing a top RB in the late 2nd or early 3rd.

I disagree strongly about the WRs. You cannot have much optimism for an offense who's WR's are a guy who had a decent rookie year, a guy who has what? 3 catches on the entire year?, and a special teams player who has been converted to WR and not really succeeded at all.

You need a guy like Marty Gilliard or Arrellious Benn in the 2nd round who can add some depth and be a consistent WR threat to go along with the other guys.

I can see where you may not want Mass, Robo and Cribbs, but another rookie is not the answer. Most rookie WRs do not produce their first season, if not two. There are too many other holes that need filled where you can find a 2nd rounder that would make an immediate impact. Go the FA route if WRs are needed.

Do some shuffling of your picks, bribe the league, cheat somehow, whatever....do what it takes to get both Suh and Spiller.

The Browns have a ton of cap space and money to bring in a couple FA's as well.

Yeah, why bring in another rookie 2nd round WR to battle other rookie 2nd round WR's? This is a position needed for a veteran imo.

McDonald is not going to be the starting CB next season, he isn't that good.

Cleveland needs a solid starting CB and LB for next season, both of which need to be selected first and foremost unless the Browns get a good shot at a solid RB.

Forget Suh. He's very likely the top pick of the draft and Cleveland won't be picking there.

As for the WRs...it's waaaay too soon to be writing off any of the rookies. Most NFL receivers don't blossom until year 2 or 3. Both Mo Mass and Robo have shown flashes that they can be productive at wideout. I think you try to sign a No. 1 guy in free agency, if possible, and shift everyone down.

Given an upgrade at RG and RT, this line can be good enough to use the current group of running backs and be very successful. The only way I'd draft another RB is if someone they really like falls to a later round.

I'm not writing off any receivers, all I'm saying is we need to bring in some other WR or two (if it's the free agent route, that is fine--you guys do make good points about not bringing in another 2nd round WR) to compliment these receivers now because you don't want to rely on 3 unproven guys.

And yeah we can forget about Suh, unless we completely tank these last 3 games.

My draft.

1. Suh, McClain, Berry, Haden, Spiller, depending on where we draft, and trade scenarios. For now, I'm going to say we get Suh.

2. Jerry Hughes. Most complete OLB that is available in the draft.

3a.) Reshad Jones. Hard hitting safety who has better ball skills than Taylor Mays by far. I think he will be a better FS than SS at the next level.

3b.) Mike Johnson. Athletic guard from Bama who has played about every position on the offensive line.

4. Joe McKnight/Montario Hardesty. We either get the biggest scat back available in this draft, 6' 200 LB McKnight, or the best pass catching power back in the draft, Hardesty. If McKnight was the true feature back at USC, he would have astonishing numbers. As he is, he still has managed to finish the regular season with more than 1000 yards averaging more than 6 per carry, and is just as dangerous as a receiver. I will make a bold statement about how I feel regarding McKnight. At WORST, he will be Reggie Bush in the pros.

Hardesty is the guy that came out of nowhere this season for the Volunteers. He is 6' 220, but was one of their better pass catchers this season as well. He averaged 5 YPC going against the best defenses in college football, with a less than impressive line at Tennessee. If we address our offensive line needs, and package him with it, we could see quite a few years of solid rushing.

5a.) Kurt Coleman. Projected as a corner in the NFL. I don't know if he ends up here, some mock draft sites have him going in rounds 5-6, but I think the potential is there for him to become a solid starter in the league. From the time I have followed him at OSU, he is always around the play, a sure tackler who the last two seasons has proven he is a threat to cause turnovers as well. He has sneaky speed, will likely run a 4.5< at the combine, and has good size for the position. We could also see him play some safety as well with Jones.

5b.) Shay Hodge. WR from Ole Miss, is a definite playmaker at the college level. Whether that translates to the pros, I dont know, but I've seen him make some catches that very few players can come down with, he is aggressive at the LOS, is willing to use contact to create seperation, and could be a major sleeper in the draft. He is a better receiver than Mike Wallace was at Ole Miss, and we have seen what he has done as a rookie for Pittsburgh.

5c.) Adam Ulatoski. Currently he plays LT for Texas, but thats not his best position, he just happens to be their best linemen, so he goes there by default. He has played RT, G, LT, but I think projects as a solid RT in the future. I think he is a better pass blocking RT than a run blocker. I like the versatility he presents to us here.

We still have two 6th round picks and a 7th. I think we could look at picking up a kicker, there will be a few available that could be the eventual replacements for Phil. I like Leigh Tiffin of Alabama, but there are some small school kickers as well with huge legs, that we could perhaps look at to take over kickoff duties. It would be hard to improve on our special teams play we have currently, but if there was one area we could make a definite improvement on, the long ball kicking game would be it.

Another direction I like to take is going for the small school prospects here. The Nick Collins (he was a second round pick, but prime example of a first round lock dropping just because of where he plays at) example. Don Carey was supposed to be that guy for us last season, but for one reason or another, first I heard injury, then other situations, IDK, it didn't work out. Leigh Bodden was a guy we brought in as a free agent a few years back and he has had a pretty good NFL career. He will be a free agent, so its possible we look to resign him, but there is a lot of talent at the smaller schools, the Hampton's, Norfolk State's, Bethune-Cookman's of this world. Akwasi Owusu-Asah from IUP is one of these premier small school studs I would love to take a flyer on.