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A great Op-Ed piece about righteous indignation (the general reaction around here)...

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ A great Op-Ed piece about righteous indignation (the general reaction around here)...
Fly4Fun's avatar

Fly4Fun

Senior Member

7,730 posts
Nov 15, 2011 5:10 PM
I have been one to stand up for McQueary... as shown on other threads. I think that at his position at the time (Graduate Assistant) seeing what he saw a (a legendary former assistant coach in PSU) doing what he did. I think he did what was appropriate. We have a bunch of people on here who supposedly would have charged into the shower and beaten Sandusky to a bloody pulp... but I find that hard to believe.

Here's a great article that articulates a point many people are overlooking in this situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/opinion/brooks-lets-all-feel-superior.html?_r=1&src=tp&smid=fb-share
Nov 15, 2011 5:10pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Nov 15, 2011 5:18 PM
Well it did come out last night that he did intervene and stopped the incident in the shower, or at least that is what he sent in an email to his friends, and then went up the chain of command apparently.

I think that changes the opinion of alot of people. When it first came out they made it seem like he just walked by, and allowed the sicko to sexually abuse the kid. In that case, yeah, many people were pretty fired up as to why he didnt stop it.

Should he have called the police? Yeah, probably, but apparently he did intervene to stop it and then report it to his bosses, something that I imagine most people would do.
Nov 15, 2011 5:18pm
Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

1,799 posts
Nov 15, 2011 5:20 PM
I think this column has a point. The fact is, we don't know all of the details of McQuery's story in the locker room. As a lawyer comentated eaelier, that grand jury transcript tells of questioning used to charge Sandusky. Had it been a criminal investigation there would have been different questions intended to vet McQuery. I reserve judgement as to what he did.

Paterno is different to me. He knew at the very least an assistant coach told him that Sandusky was doing something sexual with a little boy. mRegardless of whether or not he believed this he did nothing to see it through.
Nov 15, 2011 5:20pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Nov 15, 2011 5:52 PM
You're a fucking moron if you don't call the police in a situation like that. Fuck your career or administrative hierarchy, do the right god damned thing.
Nov 15, 2011 5:52pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Nov 15, 2011 6:19 PM
thavoice;974262 wrote:Well it did come out last night that he did intervene and stopped the incident in the shower, or at least that is what he sent in an email to his friends, and then went up the chain of command apparently.

I think that changes the opinion of alot of people. When it first came out they made it seem like he just walked by, and allowed the sicko to sexually abuse the kid. In that case, yeah, many people were pretty fired up as to why he didnt stop it.

Should he have called the police? Yeah, probably, but apparently he did intervene to stop it and then report it to his bosses, something that I imagine most people would do.
Except McQueary's GJ testimony completely contradicts that. GJ reports don't say "The GA immediately left, distraught" if that didn't happen.
Nov 15, 2011 6:19pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Nov 15, 2011 7:43 PM
thavoice;974262 wrote: Should he have called the police? Yeah, probably, but apparently he did intervene to stop it and then report it to his bosses, something that I imagine most people would do.
thats exactly what Paterno did, yet with even less information by not seeing it first hand.
Nov 15, 2011 7:43pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Nov 15, 2011 9:12 PM
Glory Days;974419 wrote:thats exactly what Paterno did, yet with even less information by not seeing it first hand.
If you hear a credible report of rape at your workplace and it has not been taken to the proper authorities you are in the wrong if you do not do so. Hell, take it to your boss if you want but make it clear that they need to contact the police and have it sorted out.

The lack of judgement by all parties involved in this thing is unacceptable.
Nov 15, 2011 9:12pm
Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

1,799 posts
Nov 15, 2011 9:16 PM
I Wear Pants;974594 wrote:If you hear a credible report of rape at your workplace and it has not been taken to the proper authorities you are in the wrong if you do not do so. Hell, take it to your boss if you want but make it clear that they need to contact the police and have it sorted out.

The lack of judgement by all parties involved in this thing is unacceptable.
That sums it up well. Workplace policies don't take the place of human decency. Joe was either in denial or he just thought he could get away with it.
Nov 15, 2011 9:16pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Nov 15, 2011 9:30 PM
Yes, it's not like Paterno did anything illegal (that I know of) but he definitely didn't do the right thing.
Nov 15, 2011 9:30pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Nov 16, 2011 7:27 AM
I Wear Pants;974594 wrote:If you hear a credible report of rape at your workplace and it has not been taken to the proper authorities you are in the wrong if you do not do so. Hell, take it to your boss if you want but make it clear that they need to contact the police and have it sorted out.

The lack of judgement by all parties involved in this thing is unacceptable.
credible? the guy saw someone being raped and didnt stop them(or so that was the first story). and why would paterno think he would have to make it clear to the AD of a top college that the police need to be involved? not only that, once paterno informed the AD, the AD interviewed ginger boy for himself to hear the story.
Nov 16, 2011 7:27am
Mooney44Cards's avatar

Mooney44Cards

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2,754 posts
Nov 16, 2011 9:49 AM
I love how this devolved into a "who's to blame for what" instead of addressing the subject of the article. Studies show that people love to talk the talk but very rarely walk the walk.

And then I love how righteous poster #1 interjects with HIS righteous indignation "I don't care, if I saw that I would go to the police immediately." blahh blahh blahh. There was just an article posted that showed that you are statistically more likely to be full of it than to do the right thing. Please respond with more righteous indignation!
Nov 16, 2011 9:49am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Nov 16, 2011 10:51 AM
Skyhook79;974320 wrote:Except McQueary's GJ testimony completely contradicts that. GJ reports don't say "The GA immediately left, distraught" if that didn't happen.
It doesn't. McQueary is now saying he didn't physically intervene, but rather made sure that the contact stopped.

The GJ testimony is: "The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him."

I'm not an expert on buggering boys, but if I'm caught red-handed I would likely stop. It is credible that McCreary's point is he made sure it stopped simply by his presence and waited until the buggering ended before he left the building.

Doesn't make him a saint, but it also doesn't make him a liar.
Nov 16, 2011 10:51am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Nov 16, 2011 10:53 AM
You have to wonder what is true in regards of McQueeery. Reports that he says in emails to friends that he made sure it stopped, and now last night I read that he said he talked to police about it.

Is that true? Is he lying?
Nov 16, 2011 10:53am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Nov 16, 2011 10:55 AM
Mooney44Cards;975142 wrote:...Studies show that people love to talk the talk but very rarely walk the walk.

...
This isn't a surprising conclusion. It basically clarifies that people rarely do the right thing because it's difficult.

It doesn't change the fact that the right thing is still the right thing to do and when you don't do it there should be ramifications for it.
Nov 16, 2011 10:55am
OSH's avatar

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

4,145 posts
Nov 16, 2011 11:18 AM
This whole "graduate assistant" rank is vastly overrated. He was 28-years-old when it happened!

That trumps the hierarchy. At 28-years-old, you know what is right and what is wrong. Somethings supersede the hierarchy...this would be one.
Nov 16, 2011 11:18am
SnotBubbles's avatar

SnotBubbles

Master of teh QQ

4,492 posts
Nov 16, 2011 11:23 AM
Fly4Fun;974258 wrote:[h=2]A great Op-Ed piece about righteous indignation (the general reaction around here)[/h]
Nov 16, 2011 11:23am
G

Gblock

Nov 16, 2011 11:43 AM
GJ reports dont include everything that was said...its up to the prosecuters what goes in...i heard that on colin cowherd show yesterday..
Nov 16, 2011 11:43am
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Nov 16, 2011 5:07 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;975238 wrote:It doesn't. McQueary is now saying he didn't physically intervene, but rather made sure that the contact stopped.

The GJ testimony is: "The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him."

I'm not an expert on buggering boys, but if I'm caught red-handed I would likely stop. It is credible that McCreary's point is he made sure it stopped simply by his presence and waited until the buggering ended before he left the building.

Doesn't make him a saint, but it also doesn't make him a liar.

Maybe, but if your going to believe his email then you have to believe the entire email including the part where he says he talked to the Campus Police and the Head of the Campus police. Here is his entire email:

"I did stop it, not physically ... but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room ... I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police .... no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds ... trust me," he wrote."

and the Campus Police response:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45321304/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

That coupled with the joke of an interview CBS did with MCQueary still leaves many questions unanswered.

McQueary's GJ testimony still says "left immediately, distraught" When he say's "but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room"
doesn't sound like a person who was distraught and indicates that he had to have had some contact with Sandusky at least verbal contact if it wasn't physical.
Nov 16, 2011 5:07pm
Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

1,799 posts
Nov 16, 2011 5:19 PM
I understand everything that has been said about a grand jury record being a prosecutorial document. However, McQuery appeared to be asked what he did after witnessing this act. Had he actually put a stop to it and gone to the police, common sense tells me those facts would have been included in there. It would have had no bearing on the testimony of McQuery. Had police been notified and not responded, it would have given the prosecuter more basis of alleging a cover up.
Nov 16, 2011 5:19pm
Z

Zoltan

Senior Member

1,003 posts
Nov 16, 2011 9:13 PM
This went off topic real fast but the article makes some great points. Everyone says they would act differently but real studies show this is just not the case.
Nov 16, 2011 9:13pm
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

Senior Member

7,733 posts
Nov 21, 2011 7:15 AM
Gblock;975321 wrote:GJ reports dont include everything that was said...its up to the prosecuters what goes in...i heard that on colin cowherd show yesterday..
No it involves the notes the designated person of the GJ takes.. the prosecuter doesn't write the final draft or even get a say in what's in it. Only thing a prosecuter does is recommend to or not to indict.
Nov 21, 2011 7:15am