Ejuan Price asking out of letter of intent.

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dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

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Jun 20, 2011 9:57 AM
lhslep134;807318 wrote:Oh really? If he didn't know about it, then how can you say he does little to encourage players following the rules?

How about this quote then: (for the record, I'm fairly certain an internet messaging board is not at all an accurate representation of work I'll be doing. But if to you it is, then you're a moron).

.

With my "lawyer skills" it's pretty apparent that Malcolm Jenkins just $hit all over your argument. BOOM: "LAWYERED"

Good lord, you must be a first year law student. I can say he does little to encourage the rules because he was just forced to resign, because of a scandal that he was involved in, for breaking rules. How can a man that breaks the rules actually encourage following them?

Second, Jenkins gave his opinion. It is argumentative and means nothing; plus he mentions what the compliance dept. does, he never stated what Tressel's role is in making players follow the rules.

Do you believe that once the Isaac, Clarett and Smith scandals all came out that Tressel wouldn't have realized there is some sort of problem and wouldn't he start encouraging the players to follow the rules or face severe consequences? Had he not been caught red-handed lying to the NCAA on the most recent scandal, I may agree with you; however, I have to call a spade a spade. Either Tressel has known about most of these scandals and just covered himself well or he has turned a blind eye and been ignorant to it on purpose. Either way, he has to go.
Jun 20, 2011 9:57am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jun 20, 2011 9:58 AM
Didn't Isaac and Monus or whoever else was under oath in the 90s say that Tressel did introduce the two and it was apparent they were introduced in order to set up payments/cars? Why 20 years later do you believe what he is saying about Tressel not knowing? Same thing with Clarett. When all his stuff went down while he was at OSU, he said it was Tressel that set things up for him. OSU fans were adamant he was lying. Almost 10 years later he says Tressel didn't know anything about it and now you are all calling him a beacon of truth.
Jun 20, 2011 9:58am
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

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Jun 20, 2011 10:09 AM
lhslep134;807318 wrote:Oh really? If he didn't know about it, then how can you say he does little to encourage players following the rules?

How about this quote then: (for the record, I'm fairly certain an internet messaging board is not at all an accurate representation of work I'll be doing. But if to you it is, then you're a moron).

.



With my "lawyer skills" it's pretty apparent that Malcolm Jenkins and Ray Small just $hit all over your argument. BOOM: "LAWYERED"

You can't keep tabs on players 24/7 to know if there's following the rules every waking freaking moment. All you can do is educate them, hope they don't break them, and report it when they do. Tressel's mistake was the latter, not the former.

Precisely. You are 100% correct. Tressel chose to coverup and lie about it rather than report it; now it casts doubt on every scandal that's ever occured under him.

And again, stating the opinions of 2 players does not make it fact. It is not good to present subjective opinion as evidence to support your argument, I'm sure you'll learn that as you progress through law school though.

Ray Small says "as a kid you are not listening to the rules." Ray Small can only speak for Ray Small, not the rest of the players that do follow the rules. So that is a moot point to try and bring up.
Jun 20, 2011 10:09am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jun 20, 2011 10:11 AM
karen lotz;807330 wrote:Didn't Isaac and Monus or whoever else was under oath in the 90s say that Tressel did introduce the two and it was apparent they were introduced in order to set up payments/cars? Why 20 years later do you believe what he is saying about Tressel not knowing?

Read the article Lotz.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/jun/05/by-karl-henkel/
Jun 20, 2011 10:11am
Terry_Tate's avatar

Terry_Tate

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Jun 20, 2011 10:14 AM
karen lotz;807330 wrote:Didn't Isaac and Monus or whoever else was under oath in the 90s say that Tressel did introduce the two and it was apparent they were introduced in order to set up payments/cars? Why 20 years later do you believe what he is saying about Tressel not knowing? Same thing with Clarett. When all his stuff went down while he was at OSU, he said it was Tressel that set things up for him. OSU fans were adamant he was lying. Almost 10 years later he says Tressel didn't know anything about it and now you are all calling him a beacon of truth.

Isn't that pretty consistent though? :)
Jun 20, 2011 10:14am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jun 20, 2011 10:23 AM
lhslep134;807340 wrote:Read the article Lotz.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/jun/05/by-karl-henkel/


I read that when it was first posted.
"I got a call from Mr. Tressel," Monus told a jury, "and I believe the call was that he wanted me to be introduced to Ray and to work out some kind of job for him."
Later that year, Isaac called Tressel. At the time, Isaac was under investigation by the FBI for tampering with the lone juror who had refused to convict Monus in his first corporate fraud trial. Facing 17 years in prison unless he squealed on Monus, his sugar daddy, Isaac wanted Tressel's advice.
"This is what I know ... " Isaac told Tressel.
His mentor, as Isaac describes Tressel, cut him off before details flowed.
"I don't want to know what you know," Tressel said. "Just tell them the truth."
Read this article lhs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1920867

That does say that Isaac denied Tressel having knowledge of it back then too, but he did try to tell Tressel what he knew and Tressel told him he didn't want to hear it.
Jun 20, 2011 10:23am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jun 20, 2011 10:24 AM
Terry_Tate;807341 wrote:Isn't that pretty consistent though? :)


yes very.
Jun 20, 2011 10:24am
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enigmaax

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Jun 20, 2011 10:32 AM
lhslep134;807310 wrote:TRESSEL DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT ISAAC HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY IT?!!?!?!

“Unless the money, or the receipts of the money, came out that Mickey Monus gave me money; if Ron Cole [then-Vindicator reporter and now YSU spokesman] had not alerted Youngstown State University, then I would have escaped the lie,” he told The Vindicator on Wednesday. “Jim Tressel did not know anything.”

Isaace admits to being a liar, but there is absolutely no way in hell he was lying to protect Tressel? Sorry, that credibility thing is coming into play again. Isaac has stated how he basically idolizes Tressel, or how he still sees him as a father figure. Tressel took good care of him, why would Isaac rat him out?

Obviously, none of us know for sure what Tressel did or didn't know, but you keep trying to pass one statement by Isaac off as gospel when he has just as much motivation to lie and just as much questionability in his character as all of the guys whose statements you immediately dismiss.
Jun 20, 2011 10:32am
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

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Jun 20, 2011 10:38 AM
As someone who's from Youngstown, I would believe Ray Isaac 100 times out of 100 over Mickey freaking Monus.
Jun 20, 2011 10:38am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jun 20, 2011 10:47 AM
enigmaax;807358 wrote:whose statements you immediately dismiss.

You're starting the whole fanbase generalization again. Who's statements have I immediately dismissed?
Jun 20, 2011 10:47am
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Jun 20, 2011 10:57 AM
lhslep134;807372 wrote:You're starting the whole fanbase generalization again. Who's statements have I immediately dismissed?

You might not have. Really doesn't matter. The point is, what Ray Isaac says doesn't make it truth.

I completely agree with the thought that a coach can't always be held accountable for actions of his players off the field. And I don't even subscribe to the theory that a coach should at least be keeping tabs on his "star" players. But when virtually all of your biggest stars have been busted for taking money, the "oh, I didn't know anything about it" line isn't really going to fly with anyone applying common sense. Once it is proven that you lied and covered it up in one of those instances, why would anyone believe you were telling the truth in the others?
Jun 20, 2011 10:57am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jun 20, 2011 11:03 AM
enigmaax;807378 wrote:But when virtually all of your biggest stars have been busted for taking money

Mike Doss
Mike Nugent
Matt Wilhelm
Andy Groom
Will Allen
AJ Hawk
Quinn Pitcock
Donte Whitner
Nick Mangold
Ted Ginn Jr.
James Laurinaitis
Malcolm Jenkins
Kirk Barton
Vernon Gholston
Kurt Coleman
Chimdi Chekwa
Mike Brewster


Have all been named to some sort of All American team under Tressel and none of them have been found guilty of anything. So stop with your nonsense about our "biggest stars" and quit ignoring the big picture to focus in on a few individuals who have ignored the rules and made their decision to break them.
Jun 20, 2011 11:03am
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

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Jun 20, 2011 11:04 AM
enigmaax;807378 wrote:You might not have. Really doesn't matter. The point is, what Ray Isaac says doesn't make it truth.

I completely agree with the thought that a coach can't always be held accountable for actions of his players off the field. And I don't even subscribe to the theory that a coach should at least be keeping tabs on his "star" players. But when virtually all of your biggest stars have been busted for taking money, the "oh, I didn't know anything about it" line isn't really going to fly with anyone applying common sense. Once it is proven that you lied and covered it up in one of those instances, why would anyone believe you were telling the truth in the others?

Bingo. Exactly what I have been saying.
Jun 20, 2011 11:04am
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enigmaax

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Jun 20, 2011 11:48 AM
lhslep134;807382 wrote:Mike Doss
Mike Nugent
Matt Wilhelm
Andy Groom
Will Allen
AJ Hawk
Quinn Pitcock
Donte Whitner
Nick Mangold
Ted Ginn Jr.
James Laurinaitis
Malcolm Jenkins
Kirk Barton
Vernon Gholston
Kurt Coleman
Chimdi Chekwa
Mike Brewster


Have all been named to some sort of All American team under Tressel and none of them have been found guilty of anything. So stop with your nonsense about our "biggest stars" and quit ignoring the big picture to focus in on a few individuals who have ignored the rules and made their decision to break them.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Those who weren't busted don't really matter. The fact is that in the most recent case, he knew about it, lied, and covered it up. I don't know why you wouldn't expect that to raise doubts about how much he knew or what else he lied about in at least 3 other high-profile cases in which one of his top players committed the same "crime". I know you are way smarter than to not know the difference between Mike Nugent and Maurice Clarett/Elite Quarterbacks.
Jun 20, 2011 11:48am
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

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Jun 20, 2011 11:56 AM
enigmaax;807420 wrote:I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Those who weren't busted don't really matter. The fact is that in the most recent case, he knew about it, lied, and covered it up. I don't know why you wouldn't expect that to raise doubts about how much he knew or what else he lied about in at least 3 other high-profile cases in which one of his top players committed the same "crime". I know you are way smarter than to not know the difference between Mike Nugent and Maurice Clarett/Elite Quarterbacks.

Well if you're going to throw out a statement that "virtually all of your biggest stars have been busted" you would expect someone to show a list of the majority of stars that haven't been accused of anything. Simply a well reasoned point that negates your statement.
Jun 20, 2011 11:56am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jun 20, 2011 12:09 PM
Y-Town Steelhound;807429 wrote:Well if you're going to throw out a statement that "virtually all of your biggest stars have been busted" you would expect someone to show a list of the majority of stars that haven't been accused of anything. Simply a well reasoned point that negates your statement.

Yup.

Enigmaax if you're going to make a broad statement like "all of your biggest stars" (which in reality is 3 OSU players named earlier), then you can be damned sure I'm going to list all of the biggest stars (uhm, slightly more than 3) who weren't busted. If you can't see where I'm going with that, well then I can't help you.
Jun 20, 2011 12:09pm
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vball10set

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Jun 20, 2011 12:38 PM
Tobias Fünke;807181 wrote:Steel Valley Football, is that you?

hahaha..touche' :D
Jun 20, 2011 12:38pm
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enigmaax

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Jun 20, 2011 12:52 PM
lhslep134;807443 wrote:Yup.

Enigmaax if you're going to make a broad statement like "all of your biggest stars" (which in reality is 3 OSU players named earlier), then you can be damned sure I'm going to list all of the biggest stars (uhm, slightly more than 3) who weren't busted. If you can't see where I'm going with that, well then I can't help you.

Okay, I'll take that. I overstated the quantity. But arguing that minor point in the statement is just eluding the real issue.

None of the guys on your list are national championship quarterbacks (go ahead, throw out Craig Krenzel). None of the guys on your list are the single biggest RB recruit in the coach's tenure. None of the guys on your list are Heisman winners. None of the guys on your list were the #1 high school recruit in the country. If you don't recognize how those guys are different from the average "star" and the fact that four people at that level is way too many to be coincidence, I can't help you either.

I don't even know what your point is anymore - it started with your belief that Ray Isaac's statement that Tressel didn't know anything must be fact. There's only one case where we know for a fact that Tressel knew anything about it. And we also know for a fact that he lied several times about knowing anything. So, that casts doubt on whether or not he told the truth in 3 other cases, regardless of how many non-cases there were.
Jun 20, 2011 12:52pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 20, 2011 1:05 PM
enigmaax;807477 wrote:Okay, I'll take that. I overstated the quantity. But arguing that minor point in the statement is just eluding the real issue.

None of the guys on your list are national championship quarterbacks (go ahead, throw out Craig Krenzel). None of the guys on your list are the single biggest RB recruit in the coach's tenure. None of the guys on your list are Heisman winners. None of the guys on your list were the #1 high school recruit in the country. If you don't recognize how those guys are different from the average "star" and the fact that four people at that level is way too many to be coincidence, I can't help you either.
.



One name, Beanie Wells
Jun 20, 2011 1:05pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jun 20, 2011 1:07 PM
Enigmaax, my argument is that these players all have something in common. They've been coddled since they were pop warner stars, so they expect the same treatment in college even if that means disregarding the rules. I'm not limiting my argument to OSU. Look at all of the other programs and players accused of things: Reggie Bush, Cam Newton et al were treated the same exact way as the ones who ran into trouble at OSU.

I guess the point I'm really trying to drive home is that these players and their attitude and their blatant disregard for the rules they were told are more at fault here in the grand scheme of things than Tressel.

Isaac was the same way. Isaac WAS the original Pryor. Super talented, but expected everything to just be given to him whether or not that involved breaking rules. At YSU it was Monus who obliged, at OSU it was Rife and Kniffin.

I guess it's just irritating that Tressel is getting lambasted by everyone for things other than lying (ie Pryor's troubles, Clarett's troubles). It's just my opinion (and the disagreeing point for everyone either on my side or on your side of the issue) that Tressel simply can't be held mostly responsible for the things that happen when he isn't around and players are going out and blatantly disregarding what Tressel and the compliance department told them in their free time.




The above part is bolded because for me to sit here and say Tressel doesn't have any responsibility for their actions is just wrong, which is why I stated it the way I did.
Jun 20, 2011 1:07pm
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enigmaax

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Jun 20, 2011 1:21 PM
lhslep134;807494 wrote:I guess the point I'm really trying to drive home is that these players and their attitude and their blatant disregard for the rules they were told are more at fault here in the grand scheme of things than Tressel.

I guess it's just irritating that Tressel is getting lambasted by everyone for things other than lying (ie Pryor's troubles, Clarett's troubles). It's just my opinion (and the disagreeing point for everyone either on my side or on your side of the issue) that Tressel simply can't be held mostly responsible for the things that happen when he isn't around and players are going out and blatantly disregarding what Tressel and the compliance department told them in their free time.
I don't disagree with any of this. Up until the point that the coach knows for sure something is going on, I wouldn't point the finger at him. My only point in Tressel's case is that his actions (lying) in the one case are cause to wonder how much he really did know in the others. That is the thing that separates him from other coaches who had big name stars do the same thing - they've never been proven to have known and lied.
Jun 20, 2011 1:21pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jun 20, 2011 1:31 PM
enigmaax;807517 wrote:Yeah, how'd that work out?

You were saying that all our super stars were dirty, and I pointed out the only super star in Florida's history(pretty sad) is not clean either.

You've been ruined, have a nice day.
Jun 20, 2011 1:31pm
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Tobias Fünke

formerly "sjmvsfscs08"

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Jun 20, 2011 1:44 PM
sleeper;807524 wrote:I pointed out the only super star in Florida's history.

Emmitt Smith? Steve Spurrier? Danny Wuerffel? Jack Youngblood?

Percy Harvin? Aaron Hernandez? Brandon Spikes? Fred Taylor?
Jun 20, 2011 1:44pm