LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 27, 2011 12:35pm
Lets look at this from a political standpoint. Tressel is a public employee that is paid by taxpayer funds (to an extent). That being said, fandom aside, just as a taxpayer, should this liar be an employee of your state on your dollar?
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
May 27, 2011 12:36pm
No
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
May 27, 2011 12:49pm
He is paid by the Athletic fund, not the university.
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
May 27, 2011 12:53pm
I'm gonna pick a nit here. JT is paid by Athletic Department funds which, technically, do NOT come from taxpayers but from athletic dollars raised from sales of tickets, merchandise, donations, etc.
In any case, I've said before that AT THIS POINT I'm inclined to take a broad look at the man and what he's done for the university, students, student athletes, and the athletic department, as part of the whole person, not just a coach who lied about an issue.
With all that in mind, I tend toward giving him a second (and last) chance to go forward. Now, if anything else crops up that directly indicts him as this issue has, then obviously, he has to go.
At this moment, he gets a second chance -- regardless of the howling by the media.
In any case, I've said before that AT THIS POINT I'm inclined to take a broad look at the man and what he's done for the university, students, student athletes, and the athletic department, as part of the whole person, not just a coach who lied about an issue.
With all that in mind, I tend toward giving him a second (and last) chance to go forward. Now, if anything else crops up that directly indicts him as this issue has, then obviously, he has to go.
At this moment, he gets a second chance -- regardless of the howling by the media.
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 27, 2011 12:53pm
sleeper;783288 wrote:He is paid by the Athletic fund, not the university.
His pension, healtcare etc is through the uni. He is also a public employee, hence why his salary and contract is available
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
May 27, 2011 1:08pm
Why not? Our mayors, governors, senators, congressmen, justices, presidents, secretaries, VPs, etc. are all liars. Why crucify him?LJ;783272 wrote:That being said, fandom aside, just as a taxpayer, should this liar be an employee of your state on your dollar?
That's purely from a political standpoint, though.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
May 27, 2011 1:09pm
O-Trap;783316 wrote:Why not? Our mayors, governors, senators, congressmen, justices, presidents, secretaries, VPs, etc. are all liars. Why crucify him?
Hell, what he did wouldn't even make the news if he were only a politician.
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
May 27, 2011 1:09pm
He'd be a saint as a congressman.FatHobbit;783318 wrote:Hell, what he did wouldn't even make the news if he were only a politician.
cruiser_96
Posts: 7,536
May 27, 2011 1:10pm
I think this opens the doors for a deeper look. If this is all the "lookers" find, then it is an isolated incident. If a closer look yields a pattern of behavior... as the saying goes, "Don't let the door smack ya where the good Lord cracked ya!"
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 27, 2011 1:50pm
FatHobbit;783318 wrote:Hell, what he did wouldn't even make the news if he were only a politician.
Amen
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 27, 2011 7:53pm
Truer words have never been spoken.FatHobbit;783318 wrote:Hell, what he did wouldn't even make the news if he were only a politician.
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
May 28, 2011 7:13am
LJ;783272 wrote:Lets look at this from a political standpoint. Tressel is a public employee that is paid by taxpayer funds (to an extent). That being said, fandom aside, just as a taxpayer, should this liar be an employee of your state on your dollar?
If being a liar is means of being fire … Impeachment of Obama
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
May 28, 2011 7:58am
If the position were an elected one I would vote for him for next season.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
May 28, 2011 8:55am
He isn't a politician, he is a coach. He lied to OSU administrators and the NCAA. The reputation that OSU now enjoys is a product of Jim Tressel's leadership. He should be fired.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
May 28, 2011 1:44pm
He lied. Have you ever lied? Taken a sick day when you weren't? Bleah. I'm sick of this discussion. Let the people who are in charge handle it as they see fit.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
May 28, 2011 4:06pm
Not to the NCAA.He lied. Have you ever lied?
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 28, 2011 6:12pm
A lie is a lie regardless of who did it, who it was said to, and whatever the reason. All of us lie for one reason or another.Prescott;784071 wrote:Not to the NCAA.
Bill Clinton lied to the American people when he claimed he never boinked Monica Lewinsksy. The reputation that America now enjoys is a product of Bill Clinton's leadership. He should have been fired, but thanks to the Dems in the Senate, he retained his presidency. Life goes on.
Tressel's a liar but he's arguably a successful coach. I'm tired of hearing about it and willing to give him a second chance.
Let's move on.
ts1227
Posts: 12,319
May 29, 2011 10:02am
believer;784151 wrote:A lie is a lie regardless of who did it, who it was said to, and whatever the reason. All of us lie for one reason or another.
Bill Clinton lied to the American people when he claimed he never boinked Monica Lewinsksy. The reputation that America now enjoys is a product of Bill Clinton's leadership. He should have been fired, but thanks to the Dems in the Senate, he retained his presidency. Life goes on.
Tressel's a liar but he's arguably a successful coach. I'm tired of hearing about it and willing to give him a second chance.
Let's move on.
I am not saying that he should be fired, but to basically say a lie is a lie and that's it is just a way to sweep it under the rug. There is a difference between parents lying to their kids about if santa claus exists and if I lie to my boss about something at work. When you are in a position where you oversee hundreds of people, and lie to your superiors it does look worse.
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 29, 2011 11:33am
Oh I understand perfectly but the fact remains ALL of us lie and deserve forgiveness and a second chance. Tress should be punished but fired? ehhhh I dunno...ts1227;784468 wrote:I am not saying that he should be fired, but to basically say a lie is a lie and that's it is just a way to sweep it under the rug. There is a difference between parents lying to their kids about if santa claus exists and if I lie to my boss about something at work. When you are in a position where you oversee hundreds of people, and lie to your superiors it does look worse.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
May 29, 2011 2:05pm
I know plenty of people who "lie" occasionally to their boss. They are pretty good workers all in all. Doesn't mean they should be fired.
In probably one of the biggest "lies" about knowing what's going on, in all of Christiandom.... St Peter "lied" about "knowing" Jesus THREE times. Yet Jesus forgave him and still made him the rock upon which he founded his church.
This "he lied" stuff as a basis for firing is for his bosses to weigh, on balance with the rest of his body of work.
In probably one of the biggest "lies" about knowing what's going on, in all of Christiandom.... St Peter "lied" about "knowing" Jesus THREE times. Yet Jesus forgave him and still made him the rock upon which he founded his church.
This "he lied" stuff as a basis for firing is for his bosses to weigh, on balance with the rest of his body of work.
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 29, 2011 3:58pm
Well said.HitsRus;784571 wrote:I know plenty of people who "lie" occasionally to their boss. They are pretty good workers all in all. Doesn't mean they should be fired.
In probably one of the biggest "lies" about knowing what's going on, in all of Christiandom.... St Peter "lied" about "knowing" Jesus THREE times. Yet Jesus forgave him and still made him the rock upon which he founded his church.
This "he lied" stuff as a basis for firing is for his bosses to weigh, on balance with the rest of his body of work.
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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
May 29, 2011 9:32pm
There are different levels of lies, and I think it still remains to be seen exactly what Tress lied about. I have been a Tress fan for 25 years, and I hope it isn't as bad as it might be. More facts are needed to fire him. For what has been revealed so far, I think he should stay, but his margin for error is pretty small in regards to off the field issues.HitsRus;784571 wrote:I know plenty of people who "lie" occasionally to their boss. They are pretty good workers all in all. Doesn't mean they should be fired.
In probably one of the biggest "lies" about knowing what's going on, in all of Christiandom.... St Peter "lied" about "knowing" Jesus THREE times. Yet Jesus forgave him and still made him the rock upon which he founded his church.
This "he lied" stuff as a basis for firing is for his bosses to weigh, on balance with the rest of his body of work.
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Manhattan Buckeye
Posts: 7,566
May 29, 2011 9:44pm
I still don't get what "lying" has to do with anything. He knowingly committed violations that negatively affected his employer and likely violated the terms of his contract. Whether those actions involved lying, cheating, stealing, gambling or whatever, the nature of the action itself is a maguffin. The moral relativism argument just eludes me. Who gives a shit that everyone has in some manner lied in their lives, most of us that did something that hurt our employer to this disagree would be shown out the door day one.
I 100% believe the Tressel apologists here would absolutely crucify LSU, Bama, Okie, etc. if Miles, Saban or Stoops pulled a stunt like this. They certainly wouldn't compare him to St. Pete.
I 100% believe the Tressel apologists here would absolutely crucify LSU, Bama, Okie, etc. if Miles, Saban or Stoops pulled a stunt like this. They certainly wouldn't compare him to St. Pete.
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 30, 2011 7:01am
Again....I understand completely.Manhattan Buckeye;784755 wrote:The moral relativism argument just eludes me. Who gives a shit that everyone has in some manner lied in their lives, most of us that did something that hurt our employer to this disagree would be shown out the door day one.
I 100% believe the Tressel apologists here would absolutely crucify LSU, Bama, Okie, etc. if Miles, Saban or Stoops pulled a stunt like this.
Quite frankly I loathe moral relativism, but there isn't one coach in big time college football that hasn't broken or at least bent the rules to one degree or another to give himself an advantage. Even St. Joe Pa over here in Happy Valley. There is so much pressure on these guys to win it all (not to mention the money) I can understand the temptation.
Do I like it or agree with it? No. But until big time college football comes out of the closet so to speak on these issues, we're deluding ourselves by expecting these guys to be saints.
The only difference between Tressel and Saban & Co. is that Tress got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Still, you can't argue with success. It helps to explain why a big time program like Ohio State's has not yet fired Tressel.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
May 30, 2011 9:16am
Not really.Only an idiot would lie to the governing body that has a history of firing those who lied to them.A lie is a lie regardless of who did it, who it was said to,
EDIT::
Jim Tressel resigned. Finally, he showed the integrity he often speaks of.