sleeper;1055352 wrote:People said the same about Iraq and we were over there for 10+ years. Iran is way bigger(6 times bigger than Iraq), way stronger than Iraq. The initial surge will cost us way more money and way more lives just to get control of the country.
They, as a nation, aren't even able to process their own oil, meaning a lot of what military they have is pretty stifled.
They're not Palestinians or anything (they have more than rocks and sticks), and even more than Iraq, but that's not saying much. They WOULD, however, resort to hiding in their mountainous terrain and taking out ground troops whenever possible (or air, if the opportunity presents itself). We'd also inevitably resort to rebuilding Iran.
So, basically, like Iraq.
Cleveland Buck;1055363 wrote:Iran is a huge country and has a lot of mountains. Also, while their military is weak, they do have formidable defense fortifications. We would lose tens of thousands of lives invading Iran and would without a doubt either default on our debt or hyperinflate ourselves into oblivion if we did it.
More succinctly, what I was saying.
majorspark;1055383 wrote:We are already fighting a limited covert war with Iran. Accidents at nuclear facilities that take out around half a dozen buildings not all in close proximity, nuclear scientist blowing up in the streets, cyber attacks etc. Its not just Israel.
True. Three Iranian nuclear scientists have been killed in the last two years. That's not happenstance.
majorspark;1055383 wrote: We have invested heavily in our military might. We have the military assets to defeat them if a true need arises. If the people and the full force of government were behind it we would do so without that high of an American causualty rate. That said I am currently not in favor of it. Nor are the American people. Creeping into it or limiting ourselves in such an engagement is utter folly. In that case your assessment may not be far off.
We agree. We are the #1 military country in the world (with how much we are in debt because of it, we'd better be). Why do we act like we're not ... like if little Iran, without its refined oil, attempted an attack, our military would be overcome?
That seems asinine to me.
majorspark;1055383 wrote: Our invested military assets we hold today likely would bring us the "win". But we are not like historical victors of times past who took the spoils of war. Loser pays in layman's terms. The American people are not ruthless enough to maintain such an empire.
Which is why it would ultimately be better off to leave other nations alone, unless absolutely necessary. That way, we don't have to plunder like barbarians, but neither do we have to rebuild what we ourselves destroy.
majorspark;1055395 wrote:So many were confused as to what he was getting at. The mistake was made nearly ten years ago. Had we fought the war in Afghanistan like it should have been fought Bin Laden would have been dead. Like what Paul and other thought they were voting for.
Bingo, and that's all he's saying, which is pretty obvious to anyone listening.
majorspark;1055395 wrote: I thought we should have went a step further and officially declared war against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Put the world on notice that we are not fucking around and the full force and political will of the US govenment is behind the war. The Taliban would have been utterly defeated. And Pakistan would piss down their legs to harbor one of them. A declared enemy offically at war with the US. To do so would be an act of war against the US. Our weakness brought us to this point. Not our strength which is the point Paul needed to bring out.
The Taliban would have at least been a definitive, declared enemy (ie. not a war on "terror").
The statement about "our weakness" is rather telling, and I think you're dead on in saying so, unfortunately. Well-stated.
Cleveland Buck;1055414 wrote:That's his whole point with the undeclared wars. Not only are they illegal, but they aren't winnable because aren't fully behind them with funding for the troops and the stomach for collateral damage and what not. Instead we try to pussyfoot around and troops aren't properly armed and it is always a disaster. It is too bad Ron isn't the speaker some of these others are, but that is part of his appeal too. People see him and know he is telling them the truth and isn't trying to spin some shit on them.
Unfortunately, too many still want a show during dinner. Tap-dancing politicians, while disingenuous, are more palatable than one who is frank about the facts.
