Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems Wordio
Log In Create Account

Officer Shoots And Kills Man

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Officer Shoots And Kills Man
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
May 11, 2011 8:30 PM
Police: Officer Shoots And Kills Man With Knife In Upper Arlington: http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/may/11/officer-shoots-and-kills-man-knife-upper-arlington-ar-485473/

An officer shoots and kills a man who allegedly engaged him with a “butcher’s knife” in Upper Arlington Wednesday night.

Around 6:50 p.m. Upper Arlington and Hilliard police responded to the area of Smiley Road on a report of a car hitting a tree.

Police say when they arrived a male approximately late teens to early 20’s in age was wandering away from the vehicle and acting disoriented. He was in possession of what police describe as a “butcher’s knife.”

Police say when they attempted to address the man, he engaged an officer with threats.

The suspect was shot and killed by the officer.

Neighbors told police that when they saw the man it appeared that he had been cutting himself with the knife.

Police said the body had been through significant trauma.

The incident is under investigation.
May 11, 2011 8:30pm
M

MontyBrunswick

May 11, 2011 8:31 PM
Unacceptable. Pigs are out of control these days.
May 11, 2011 8:31pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
May 11, 2011 8:47 PM
Guess you shouldn't threaten a cop? More info is needed to know if it is justifiable or not.
May 11, 2011 8:47pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
May 11, 2011 8:52 PM
Sounds justified to me...... http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/11/Hilliard-police-reportedly-involved-in-shooting.html?sid=101

The guy was threatening neighbors, cutting himself and was going at officers with a "butcher knife"

The use of deadly force was met: self defense from the threat of death or serious bodily harm or defending others from threat of death or serious bodily harm.
May 11, 2011 8:52pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
May 11, 2011 8:56 PM
They couldn't have shot him in the leg?
May 11, 2011 8:56pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
May 11, 2011 9:07 PM
Mulva;765742 wrote:They couldn't have shot him in the leg?

Is this for real? If you shoot you shoot to kill. Center of mass.
May 11, 2011 9:07pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

Senior Member

4,288 posts
May 11, 2011 9:18 PM
I'm sure the guy with the butcher's knife was just "turning his life around".
May 11, 2011 9:18pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
May 11, 2011 9:36 PM
iclfan2;765755 wrote:Is this for real? If you shoot you shoot to kill. Center of mass.
Exactly, this isn't a dirty harry movie.... no warning shots and only time you shoot is 2 kill.
May 11, 2011 9:36pm
Speedofsand's avatar

Speedofsand

Troublemaker

5,529 posts
May 11, 2011 9:55 PM
woah. I know a Hilliard cop. I hope it wasn't him that killed the guy.
May 11, 2011 9:55pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
May 11, 2011 9:58 PM
iclfan2;765755 wrote:Is this for real? If you shoot you shoot to kill. Center of mass.

Yes, this is for real. He had a knife. He didn't pull a gun on them. It's not like it was a spur of the moment split second decision. Either,

A) The cops fucked up by letting a guy with a KNIFE (you know, with a range of the length of his arm plus a few inches) get close enough to consider him to be threatening them imminently, or
B) They have awful negotiation/talking people down skills

Most likely both. Either way

C) They did an awful job getting the neighbors away from a psycho with a butcher knife if he was threatening them to the point he had to be shot to death.

But I guess murdering someone is one way to keep them from cutting him or herself.
May 11, 2011 9:58pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
May 11, 2011 10:43 PM
Mulva;765832 wrote:Yes, this is for real. He had a knife. He didn't pull a gun on them. It's not like it was a spur of the moment split second decision. Either,

A) The cops fucked up by letting a guy with a KNIFE (you know, with a range of the length of his arm plus a few inches) get close enough to consider him to be threatening them imminently, or No one knows the situation, did the cops pull up and the guy ran straight at them? If that's the case, do the cops run from him, lol NO!!! Someone running with any object closes the gap, FAST!
B) They have awful negotiation/talking people down skills We dont know if any talking was done, did they arrive and he ran straight at him(suicide by cop) or was he running straight at people in the area.... We don't know yet and maybe wont know.

Most likely both. Either way

C) They did an awful job getting the neighbors away from a psycho with a butcher knife if he was threatening them to the point he had to be shot to death. Maybe he was threatening the neighbors before the cops were on the scene? Maybe as the cops approached, the suspect has someone pinned near an object and they had to shoot before the person was killed or injured.... Again, we don't know the specifics but you have to act fast in situations like this occur, you can't be a NINJA and run up and take a knife out of someones hand when they aren't being cooperative. It's either put the deadly weapon down and comply or being shot because of him charging at anyone near this incident..... Again, we don't know the specifics and don't know yet.

But I guess murdering someone is one way to keep them from cutting him or herself.
It's not murder, the officer was doing his/her job by maybe saving one of the neighbors lives or by the officer going home to his family because he decided to shoot the suspect and not do hand to hand combat with someone that could be on drugs and yielding a deadly weapon. I would rather shoot a suspect and they might die or could survive, just doing my job, we don't need another law enforcement officer dying like the deputy was hit and killed was deploying stop sticks in Ohio this past week. I guess if the officer that was killed started shooting at the car that struck him, that wouldn't have been justified either...... People need to get real and realize all the dangers that police officers face every day. I will agree that not every officer makes the smart decision!
May 11, 2011 10:43pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
May 11, 2011 10:48 PM
Shoot the guy in the arm, the leg, or tase him...then take the knife and cuff him. Problem solved without killing anyone
May 11, 2011 10:48pm
sej's avatar

sej

Senior Member

540 posts
May 11, 2011 10:53 PM
You don't shoot to wound. You shoot for center mass, which in many cases is fatal. If you truly think someone, even with extensive training, would be able to neutralize an imminent threat by hitting an extremity in a high pressure situation, you're an idiot. All shooters can have a bad day, and that bad day could end up with you on a slab.


FWIW, previous research has indicated an attacker (and for the research, it was assumed s/he has a bladed weapon) can close a gap of 21 feet before an officer can recognize the threat, draw the weapon and fire. New research is showing that may be too small of a gap, and that the actual distance someone could cover is greater. They don't have to be close to have the opportunity to do harm.
May 11, 2011 10:53pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
May 11, 2011 10:56 PM
Cant react to a disoriented subject 21 feet away with a bladed weapon? I find that VERY VERY hard to believe, it doesnt take that long to draw and fire
May 11, 2011 10:56pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
May 11, 2011 10:58 PM
Either way, should be able to disarm someone without killing them IMO(unless the subject has a firearm as well)
May 11, 2011 10:58pm
sej's avatar

sej

Senior Member

540 posts
May 11, 2011 11:00 PM
Sure, some people can probably manage to do it. It's about the average officer, and you'll always have people above and below.

Would that be a risk you'd want to take when someone is coming at you with a knife and has already threatened to harm you and others with that knife? I can guarantee it's not one I would take.

As for the disoriented part, a threat is a threat until you can confirm otherwise. I've had plenty of guys appear to be disoriented, having a seizure, having a heart attack, and my personal favorite, pretend to pass out. Not one of them was actually having any sort of medical issue and just thought it would get them out of going to jail.
May 11, 2011 11:00pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
May 11, 2011 11:12 PM
Hb31187;765883 wrote:Cant react to a disoriented subject 21 feet away with a bladed weapon? I find that VERY VERY hard to believe, it doesnt take that long to draw and fire

False, 15 yards is abt the minimum to draw and fire from retention. Ive done training on this with paint bullets at tdi. Its insane how fast someone can close on you when you factor in reaction time
May 11, 2011 11:12pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
May 11, 2011 11:13 PM
Probably no need to kill the guy but this isn't one of those cases where I'm super outraged as the dude was harming himself and threatening others.

However, the idea that you only shoot to kill is ridiculous. There are situations, like this one, where shooting a dude in the leg or something and then observing the situation some more would be absolutely reasonable and wouldn't place any extra risk on anyone.
May 11, 2011 11:13pm
chicago510's avatar

chicago510

Original Chatterer

5,728 posts
May 11, 2011 11:13 PM
I think it is incredibly easy to judge from afar and say what you would/would not have done in a situation you have never been in.

Not saying this was right/wrong, but its easy to pass judgement from your home computer.

And anyone who thinks you shoot at the arm/leg at someone charging with a weapon is likely dead.
May 11, 2011 11:13pm
sej's avatar

sej

Senior Member

540 posts
May 11, 2011 11:20 PM
LJ;765897 wrote:False, 15 yards is abt the minimum to draw and fire from retention. Ive done training on this with paint bullets at tdi. Its insane how fast someone can close on you when you factor in reaction time

What retention level was the holster you used for that? We have level 1 and it's still rough. I'd have a real hell of a time with a level 3.

chicago510;765899 wrote:I think it is incredibly easy to judge from afar and say what you would/would not have done in a situation you have never been in.

Not saying this was right/wrong, but its easy to pass judgement from your home computer.

And anyone who thinks you shoot at the arm/leg at someone charging with a weapon is likely dead.
QFT
May 11, 2011 11:20pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
May 11, 2011 11:21 PM
chicago510;765899 wrote:I think it is incredibly easy to judge from afar and say what you would/would not have done in a situation you have never been in.

Not saying this was right/wrong, but its easy to pass judgement from your home computer.

And anyone who thinks you shoot at the arm/leg at someone charging with a weapon is likely dead.
The man wasnt charging
May 11, 2011 11:21pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
May 11, 2011 11:23 PM
LJ;765897 wrote:False, 15 yards is abt the minimum to draw and fire from retention. Ive done training on this with paint bullets at tdi. Its insane how fast someone can close on you when you factor in reaction time

I suppose, just seems (without having ever been in this situation or trained) that u could draw and fire quicker than that. Guess im wrong in this case
May 11, 2011 11:23pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
May 11, 2011 11:25 PM
sej;765907 wrote:What retention level was the holster you used for that? We have level 1 and it's still rough. I'd have a real hell of a time with a level 3.




QFT

0. Under concealment tho (shoot me shirt)
Btw, glad to see safariland infiltrate your lingo too lol.
May 11, 2011 11:25pm
sej's avatar

sej

Senior Member

540 posts
May 11, 2011 11:32 PM
Our issued may as well be 0. Mine was worthless after about a year. I upgraded to a Blackhawk, and haven't tried the 21 foot drill with it yet.
May 11, 2011 11:32pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
May 11, 2011 11:34 PM
He was coming at the officer...

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/11/Hilliard-police-reportedly-involved-in-shooting.html?sid=101

The man refused to drop the knife and was coming toward the officer, threatening him with it,
when the officer shot the man, Francis said.
Sam Britain, Tiffany's husband, said he went to help when he first saw the wrecked SUV.
The driver was standing just outside the passenger door.
"He had two big lacerations on his neck and he was bleeding profusely," Mr. Britain said. There
also was a cut just underneath the man's chin.
Mr. Britain said he tried to help, taking off his shirt and pressing it on the man's neck to
stop the bleeding.
But the man pushed him away.
"He wouldn't lay down, he was just acting crazy," Mr. Britain said.
At one point, the man went back into his vehicle and pulled out the knife.
"It was like something like Freddy Krueger would have," Mrs. Britain said.
When police arrived, the man had run three doors down into a backyard, she said. Mr. Britain
said he heard repeated commands by the officer for the man to drop the knife, then heard three
gunshots. The man was pronounced dead at the scene.
"You feel bad for the Hilliard police officer that fired," Mr. Britain said.


Swyped from my HTC Evo with Eternal Prophecy 5.5 ROM.
May 11, 2011 11:34pm