http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/10/my-take-catholic-church-should-reverse-ivf-opposition/?hpt=C2

This is a good opinion piece on CNN regarding the Catholic Church's opposition to IVF. As the father of a child who was conceived via IVF and a former Catholic, I concur with this writer's opinion that the Church should revisit its stance on this issue.

I look at it from a very basic premise. Assuming IVF never desposed of a viable embryo, the Church would still be against it because it allows for pregnancy without intercourse - it takes the place of what God had intended. If that's the case, don't all efforts by medicine violate God's will? Aren't eyeglasses a violation of God's intention that your vision should be fuzzy? I struggle with what I see as an inconsistency.

I'm no longer a practicing Catholic. But I do respect the Church's right to have its opinions. I just find the logic in this particur case deeply flawed. It is the main reason I decided to leave the Church.

Opinions?

This thread is too serious for the OC.

I agree with your opinion. I am all for IVF when there is a caring family that wants to have a baby. However not so much for the single woman who just wants to have a kid. Like "Duji" from Cleveland's morning show on 100.7 Rover's morning Glory. I think it is her right to start her own family, but I just don't agree with it, as she is a complete tard and is not financially well off. Granted, kids are intentionally and unintentionally brought into the world in much more screwed up sitations to parents who don't care.

Edit: Religiously I don't have issues with it. But I am not catholic.

If you're not catholic anymore what do you care, you're not beholden to their dogmas or beliefs. If any of their current members take the church's stance with obedience then that's their business.

Uhh Ohh.... The train is rolling down the rickety tracks at a 180 MPH..... I wonder what is gonna happen.

Thread Bomber;764155 wrote:Uhh Ohh.... The train is rolling down the rickety tracks at a 180 MPH..... I wonder what is gonna happen.

I'd be on cue right now with my usual sarcastic religion-baiting comment, but damn! There were a lot of big words with multiple syllables in that first post and I'm kinda dizzy and headachey and I've only gotten through about halfway into the second paragraph.

So my opinion is, "Catholic put the team on dey back doh"

The Equalizer;764151 wrote:If you're not catholic anymore what do you care, you're not beholden to their dogmas or beliefs. If any of their current members take the church's stance with obedience then that's their business.

I care because this issue affected me and this guy wrote an opinion piece about it I agreed with. Nothing more than that.

As a Catholic, I could give a shit what their views on IVF, contraception, etc are. The Pope is certainly not infallible so I taking what he says with a grain of salt.

Tobias Fünke;764206 wrote:As a Catholic, I could give a shit what their views on IVF, contraception, etc are. The Pope is certainly not infallible so I taking what he says with a grain of salt.

I thought Catholics do believe the Pope is infallible?

You shouldn't worry about what the church thinks. Hell, I know the church condemns people who commit adultery and rape, we see how well that has been working out for them.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;764098 wrote:Opinions?

My opinion is that anytime you start a thread and use an abbreviation like IVF, you should use the actual term first so everyone knows what you are talking about.

krambman;764718 wrote:My opinion is that anytime you start a thread and use an abbreviation like IVF, you should use the actual term first so everyone knows what you are talking about.

This has to be a joke, how many people don't know what IVF means?

Manhattan Buckeye;764722 wrote:This has to be a joke, how many people don't know what IVF means?

Not to mention it takes less than a second to figure it out, the internet is AMAZING!

I am not Catholic but respect the fact that they are willing to hold firm to certain beliefs as they relate to life and the gift of it.

Con_Alma;764736 wrote:I am not Catholic but respect the fact that they are willing to hold firm to certain beliefs as they relate to life and the gift of it.

What does their beliefs have to do with the gift of life? Its anti-life if anything.

BTW love reading the comments from the article...how stupid are people? Particulary the ones saying "its God's will" a woman isn't pregnant so she should just give up, or act as if you adopt a child like you would ordering a hamburger at McDonald's (note, it doesn't work that way, it is extremely expensive and extremely stressful). I'm not Catholic either, for good reason.

Aside from the Catholic Dogma, I do not like the concept of IVF in general.

It fucks up the gene pool. There is a reason that you are not having children. LISTEN TO GOD.

"It fucks up the gene pool. There is a reason that you are not having children. LISTEN TO GOD. "

God doesn't exist, if he did, you would have been aborted.

Thread Bomber;764776 wrote:Aside from the Catholic Dogma, I do not like the concept of IVF in general.

It fucks up the gene pool. There is a reason that you are not having children. LISTEN TO GOD.

Reminds me of this verse.
1 Corinthians 10:23 NIV
New International Version
"Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

Skyhook79;764809 wrote:Reminds me of this verse.
1 Corinthians 10:23 NIV
New International Version
"Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

Paul was one wise mother fucker, wasn't he? I prefer...
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version, ©2011)

34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[b

Bigred1995;764825 wrote:Paul was one wise mother fucker, wasn't he? I prefer...
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version, ©2011)

34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[b

That verse has to do with what was happening during the service/assembly at that time. Women can pray, prophesy and speak publicly, but they are commanded not to have authority over the man. The Bible says Adam was first then Eve. If this verse meant that they couldn’t “speak”, then Paul is contradicting himself with what he already said in 1 Cor. 11:5:
“But every women that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”
These verses (and the entire chapter) are dealing with ORDER in the assembly.

Oh the luxuries of being able to quote Bible verses...

It's always interesting what people want to attribute them to and why they quote them. I particularly enjoy (DISLIKE!!!) when people quote one and two verses at a time to "get their point across" or as "Biblical support."

Let's leave context and the real meaning of the words behind, they aren't useful -- i.e., the whole "church" term (ekklesia).


But, back to the Catholic church and IVF, why?!?! Isn't there more important things to do with your faith, time, and money? For starters...the Pope NEEDS a bigger city/house/mobile...

Skyhook79;764844 wrote:That verse has to do with what was happening during the service/assembly at that time. Women can pray, prophesy and speak publicly, but they are commanded not to have authority over the man. The Bible says Adam was first then Eve. If this verse meant that they couldn’t “speak”, then Paul is contradicting himself with what he already said in 1 Cor. 11:5:
“But every women that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”
These verses (and the entire chapter) are dealing with ORDER in the assembly.

I know what it means! In simplest terms, in church, a woman needs to keep her damn mouth shut!

OK... Here we go!!!!....

Manhattan Buckeye;764745 wrote:What does their beliefs have to do with the gift of life? Its anti-life if anything.

....

I do not believe the views of the Catholic Church are anti-life. Without being fully schooled in their entire interpretation it's my understanding that natural procreation is the route and gift the God provides us.

Skyhook79;764844 wrote:That verse has to do with what was happening during the service/assembly at that time. Women can pray, prophesy and speak publicly, but they are commanded not to have authority over the man. The Bible says Adam was first then Eve. If this verse meant that they couldn’t “speak”, then Paul is contradicting himself with what he already said in 1 Cor. 11:5:
“But every women that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”
These verses (and the entire chapter) are dealing with ORDER in the assembly.

ahh yes, back to the bible quotes!

Con_Alma;764886 wrote:I do not believe the views of the Catholic Church are anti-life. Without being fully schooled in their entire interpretation it's my understanding that natural procreation is the route and gift the God provides us.

What else should be natural? Cancer treatments? Should patients not undertake chemo because it is unnatural?

Here is a gift from God, stop listening to myths.