Anyone can coach a team that is talented. The great coaches get noticed when they take average teams and make them into playoff teams...this is called building a winning tradition and a good football program. When you have a coach that has success consistently, you know you have a great coach because the kids respond well to the coaching style and you see the result on friday nights....no matter how much talent the team actually as. When a team has a lot of talent you can hide a lot of the coaching flaws because we as fans only look at the wins/losses and the success of the team.

wcalfan;912368 wrote:Beast, you are absolutely right...this is a public message board and people are allowed to have opinions. However, do you REALLY think that Coach Z quit on his team last Friday? Do you really? You have done nothing but attack his coaching ability. So he was a bad coach his 2nd and 3rd years as a coach when they won back to back league championships and went to the playoffs? Was he??? All of a sudden he can't coach. Hmmmmm, lets see here......the only thing that has changed are the players in the program. He is the same coach he has always been. You tell me....did he all of a sudden become a bad coach? This isn't college, where you can recruit the players you want for your program/style. Why is it that when a team wins, its only because they have good players but when they lose it is because they have a bad coach? I would love for you to be a coach of any sport for 1 week. 1 WEEK....you wouldn't last 1 day! You have no idea all of the CRAP that they have to deal with. NO CLUE!!!

Coach Z is a GREAT, intelligent man!!!! I will not take that from him as NOONE can!!!

You ask if I think he quit on his team? I saw him throw his headset on the ground and never put it back on....you make the call....

You say all that has changed is the players...Offensive schemes and defensive schemes have changed..

Best 11...platoon...platoon...best 11....= change

2nd and 3rd year...handoff to Nofsinger....GENIUS!!!! now mis direction playaction= change

League Titles and playoff...Great Coach!!! Losing record....Not great...happens everywhere.

# of kids on the sidelines 60+ to 35? = something wrong (is it the coach or the kids?)

No clue?

Matt is the guy at Waynedale! Do I always agree with his decisions? Not always... Can I do better? Probably not...Do I REPECT the man?? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I have a clue?? ABSOLUETELY!!! Weather you realize it or not I have been involved with Coaching of wrestling at some level since 93.....Its a different monster all together, I understand...but there are still issues.

I have no personal agenda with Mr Z....but as goes the bus...goes the driver. If you want an extremely good example of that...Orrville...2010 State semi-finals...Coach Davault = AWESOME......2011 Orrville 3-2....Coach Davault questionable...you see its the nature of the Beast!

Good Luck to The Bears the rest of the year..Including Z....I will be there rain or shine.....win or lose and support my Bears!

Thank You!!! Have a Nice Day!

The Orrville coaches are having some trouble with egos....and I think that is a concern with a team with a lot of talent, and maybe the hardest coaching responsibility when you do have those kind of teams.

I didn't want to get involved, but I did hear from a family member who has a son on the team that Coach Z slammed his headset down in the 4th qtr never put it back on....Then if that wasn't enough, Saturday morning at the film session the team watched the 1st qtr and he took the disc out, broke it in half, threw it in the trash and walked out.


That to me isn't something I want to see from a head coach....Sure show a little frustration, but those two acts just showed disinterest in the team.

How bout them Browns!!!! What a win yesterday!!!

1_beast;912456 wrote:How bout them Browns!!!! What a win yesterday!!!

But they didn't cover the spread, cost me lots of vcash!:mad:

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote:The only thing I'm a resident expert on is calling out smug, holier than thou, know it all trolls. Guess what....you qualify....not just on this thread either.

Where the heck am I being smug, holier than thou, or know it all? Please, I'd like to know, because it's news to me.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: I have no problem with one team beating another 80-6.....and the answer is THERE IS NO RESPECTFUL WAY TO DO IT. What happened....happened. The word "respect" doesn't mix with a 74 point blowout. Thats my opinion.

Interesting. Rarely do I ever take my opinion and go on a long rant ripping someone personally when they made a comment not even directed at me, just because it happened to disagree with my opinion. We're obviously two very different people, though.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: I'm not expecting you to understand since you wouldn't even admit the penis island shirt wasn't appropriate for church.

I think I refused to "admit" that it was inappropriate for this board ... because it isn't. I only mentioned that I've worn it to church, which I have. Nobody cared.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to call it out, as it breaks no rules. It just seemed like you were looking for a reason to call me out on something.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: It should also be mentioned, I was there!!! it was a long time ago...but I was there....Were You?

Oh, I forgot....YOU HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE...........I believe thats the same as "Someone told me". Nobody had to tell me.

Actually, first-hand knowledge (let me Google that for you) means I was there. Not only was I there, but:

1. I was on the sideline.
2. I heard the coaches and knew the gameplan as it progressed.
3. I know what plays, SPECIFICALLY, were called.
4. I know when the subs were brought in.

THAT'S first-hand knowledge. I may not be the #1 guy to talk to when it comes to what the team was thinking, but other than the coaches themselves, I'd be pretty close.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote:I also had nothing riding on the game, I didn't care who won......in other words, no emerald colored glasses here. Can you claim that?

I can claim actually hearing the Smithville coaches talk. I can claim to actually have known when the JV bench players went in. I can claim to actually have known what plays were run.

Can you?

So, at what point should a team of 11 guys on offense just start downing the ball? I mean, if you've decided that respect doesn't have to do with how you play the game, but instead with the margin on the scoreboard, then at what point should the offense just stop playing? Maybe they should call the game early if they want to show respect. Maybe the offense should lay on its back for every play. Would that be respectful enough for you?

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: I could go on, but I need to flip over to JJ and check the pick'em pool standings that you volunteered to run a few years back....wait....oh, thats right, you vanished after 2 weeks without a explanation or apology. Did it have anything to do with Smithville not being competitive that year?

I actually did apologize, and Smithville was competitive that year (made the playoffs at least ... went 9-1 in the regular season ... that seems pretty competitive to me, but maybe not you).

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: I also find it interesting that now the Smithies are good......Otrap shows up! Where were you last year?...besides the serious business and political threads.

Actually, I wasn't really on any of the forums last year, and that includes Serious Business and the Politics forum. Hell, I JUST got back into the Politics forum about a month or two ago.

Also, not that you should care, but I began posting on this forum again this year before Smithville even played a single game. To see just how far back, I decided to look. Not sure how "good" Smithville was playing in late July. Perhaps you could tell me what their record was at the time, because I wasn't under the impression that they'd played any games yet.

I live considerably further away than I used to, but I always make sure I come home at least one time a year to watch my alma mater play. That hasn't been any different whether they've been a playoff contender or they've gotten slaughtered by most of their schedule.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote:In closing I will say...I am a troll, a big mouth and many other repugnant things....I freely admit it. I'm also wrong some of the time, I admit that too. I just don't think I'm wrong about you.

Honestly, you attacked me without any provocation. I'm not sure why you think that was somehow justified. I try to get along with everyone, so I apologize if I take it a bit hard when someone seems to assume so much of what I either try not to be or flat out am not.

If you'd actually like to see if you were right, I'd be glad to buy you a beer (your choice ... I'll drink whatever you're havin'). Hell, if you're at the Smithville-Hillsdale game this weekend, I'd be glad to shake your hand.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote:I will even apologize for the "wine drinking metrosexuals comment"........... please replace it with "trendy micro brew drinking limpwrists"

I catch hell for that plenty, so it doesn't really bother me that people actually believe it, whether or not it's true. In all actuality, I like beer. I drink anything from Budweiser to Founders. Not sure what my preference on a brew (preferring the stronger ones from a BAC perspective, no less) has to do with being a limp wrist, but hey, like I said, I've caught enough heat for that on here already.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: In the future I will try to ignore you as much as possible....please extend me the same courtesy.

I don't even understand why there is any animosity. Have I wronged you in some way? If I did, then whatever it was, I'm sorry. Maybe I was having a bad day. Maybe I came across in a way I didn't mean to. Maybe I was being an ass.

I said on another thread that great men are still fallible. Pretty sure that makes regular people like me even more so.

Bloody Toothbrush;912130 wrote: P.S......if you can't resist replying to this post and you want me to see it. wait till Saturday....I'll be gone until then.

Indeed I couldn't resist. It just seems like you're flat out angry with me about something, launching your post before this last one as a personal attack in reply to something I said that wasn't directed toward anyone in particular and was not even critical of anyone.

If you're on or not until then, fine. Ultimately, you certainly don't owe me an explanation for why you seem to dislike me, but I'd be open to hearing what I've done to you to cause you to dislike me as much as you seem to.

SO what are the keys to victory for the big matchup this week between Falcons/Smithies?

Stop the run, stop the run,stop the run. That goes both ways.

OQB;912500 wrote:SO what are the keys to victory for the big matchup this week between Falcons/Smithies?

I haven't seen the Falcons play, so personally, I only bring half the perspective to the table, and most of it is pretty basic.

Smithville, needless to say, runs when they can and passes when they need to. It's a power running game, with two bruiser-style runners who seem to pride themselves in breaking tackles (a fantastic trait for a RB), and to date, one back who is like a catalyst. Seems like he sees the ball less often, but whenever he does, he ends up doing something exciting with it. And none of that includes the quarterback, who is quite a runner as well. Very fast in his own rite. The line is very strong, and drives defenses off the line pretty well. The team has gotten back to a more reserved playbook, running an adapted Wing-T that Schrock has become known for running.

The defense, both pass and run, is pretty sharp. The DBs are short, but they play the ball pretty well. The lines on both sides play big. Not a speed line, but a strength one.

Go Falcons;912514 wrote:Stop the run, stop the run,stop the run. That goes both ways.

Hillsdale has been all run this year? I remember they had more of a vaunted, or at least balanced, offense a few years ago when Williams started really taking them in the right direction.

1_beast;912419 wrote:Coach Z is a GREAT, intelligent man!!!! I will not take that from him as NOONE can!!!

You ask if I think he quit on his team? I saw him throw his headset on the ground and never put it back on....you make the call....

You say all that has changed is the players...Offensive schemes and defensive schemes have changed..

Best 11...platoon...platoon...best 11....= change

2nd and 3rd year...handoff to Nofsinger....GENIUS!!!! now mis direction playaction= change

League Titles and playoff...Great Coach!!! Losing record....Not great...happens everywhere.

# of kids on the sidelines 60+ to 35? = something wrong (is it the coach or the kids?)

No clue?

Matt is the guy at Waynedale! Do I always agree with his decisions? Not always... Can I do better? Probably not...Do I REPECT the man?? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I have a clue?? ABSOLUETELY!!! Weather you realize it or not I have been involved with Coaching of wrestling at some level since 93.....Its a different monster all together, I understand...but there are still issues.

I have no personal agenda with Mr Z....but as goes the bus...goes the driver. If you want an extremely good example of that...Orrville...2010 State semi-finals...Coach Davault = AWESOME......2011 Orrville 3-2....Coach Davault questionable...you see its the nature of the Beast!

Good Luck to The Bears the rest of the year..Including Z....I will be there rain or shine.....win or lose and support my Bears!

Thank You!!! Have a Nice Day!

So now when a coach throws his headset, he is quitting on his team? Are you serious? You would be the same type of fan that if Coach Z would just stand there and be calm about the game, you would rip him for being too nice and not hard enough on the kids. Also, another post on this forum talks about him breaking the game DVD. Claiming that it shows "disinterest" by the coach. Are you kidding me?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....coaching YOUTH wrestling??? Come on man! Who are you kidding? Let's see you do it at the high school level. No way!

I KNEW you would say that about Nofsinger. He also had some other pretty good players on those teams but it still takes a great leader to get everyone to buy into the TEAM. You wouldn't believe the egos and parent issues he had to deal with during those years. You wouldn't believe it because you don't see those behind the scenes things. You just show up on Friday nights and that makes you the expert!

You ABSOLUTELY make no sense in your post.

It still boils down to having good players who DO THEIR JOB and play as a TEAM. BOTTOM LINE....NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS ABOUT IT. We didn't have leaders who would do that last year and, I hate to say it, we may not have it again this year. Coach Z can teach and preach it all he wants but the players (and unfortunately the parents) must buy into it.

When you talk about our numbers going down you need to make sure you are giving all of the facts. We only have 38 kids on the roster this year but only 5 of them are freshmen. This class BARELY had enough players last year as 8th graders to even field a team. Is that Z's fault? We have averaged almost 12-15 freshmen a year since he has been coach. We have been able to have a freshmen schedule. Something that didn't happen all the time in the past, even when Seder was coaching. So say that we JUST have 12 freshmen out this year, then we are at 45. That is a pretty good number. Yes, there have been years that Z had over 60 kids but we had NEVER seen those numbers before he became coach, NEVER. Doesn't that say something about him??? Kids must like playing for him AND he is doing the same off-season program now that he did back then when he had those high roster numbers. AGAIN, I ask you...why the difference? It is the type of kids that we have right now walking in our halls. I listened to our AD at the fall parent pre-season meeting say that we have become a soft society and I think he has something there.

Using Orrville as your "extremely good example" is actually an extremely bad example that has no merit whatsoever. Did you notice this past Friday that the Red Riders had 8 penalties for 85 yards and turned the ball over 5 TIMES?!?!?!? How many times did that happen last year???? Is that the coaches fault or the players? Who is actually out there playing the game on the field? Do you think that they practice being disciplined during practice? Do you think that Coach DeVault preaches taking care of the ball? The answer to both of those questions is a resounding YES. It really isn't the nature of the beast. It is because of so called fans like yourself, who don't really have a clue and all you want to do is 2nd guess coaches.

You ask if YOU can do better and your answer was "probably not". You are wrong...the answer is "ABSOLUTELY" NOT!!! Watching you try to coach these kids would be laughable and embarrassing for yourself.

Then my favorite part of your post is when you say...."win or lose and support my Bears!" You call this support? The things you have said on this forum is your idea of support?

You win!

I said "you make the call"...i left it at that!

I offered to meet you for coffee if you want to discuss this further, however you never replied to my message! Hide behind your screen name....cast stones and I'll leave you with this thought.

"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still" ~~Lao Tzu

Now that we have put that behind us...can we move on...its been established by 5 of his 10 posts that wcalfan has a personal vendetta against Beast!!! He cant see his hand in front of his face through his brown colored glasses.

Lets get back to some good football talk....

very interested to see how this smithie - falcon game goes down. After seeing them play dalton the last 2 weeks, my initial reaction is that smithville was more impressive. I don't know how much pressure the smithville db's have faced this yr but the falcons do have a pretty good passing game with kline, licata, young,etc. (however, that was against a very young bulldog secondary). I do think smithville will be able to slow down the falcon run game, but no one has been able to do that yet to smithville. That's why I'm going with the smithies 28-21.

Staying in that vein, though, I do wonder how the smithville's one dimensional offense (so far) will translate to the playoffs if they make it that far. I realize the smithies have been this way in quite a few successful seasons, but I'm not sure if I remember them passing quite this few times. (Believe me, that doesn't really bother me as I'm a bulldog fan and we know all about one dimensional offenses and running the football over the years). You just know you're gooing to have to pass at some point in the postseason. I have seen that bite Dalton in the past and it just got me thinking.It doesn't have to be 50-50 run vs pass, but maybe 95-5 at least?

1486wd;912758 wrote:very interested to see how this smithie - falcon game goes down. After seeing them play dalton the last 2 weeks, my initial reaction is that smithville was more impressive. I don't know how much pressure the smithville db's have faced this yr but the falcons do have a pretty good passing game with kline, licata, young,etc. (however, that was against a very young bulldog secondary). I do think smithville will be able to slow down the falcon run game, but no one has been able to do that yet to smithville. That's why I'm going with the smithies 28-21.

Staying in that vein, though, I do wonder how the smithville's one dimensional offense (so far) will translate to the playoffs if they make it that far. I realize the smithies have been this way in quite a few successful seasons, but I'm not sure if I remember them passing quite this few times. (Believe me, that doesn't really bother me as I'm a bulldog fan and we know all about one dimensional offenses and running the football over the years). You just know you're gooing to have to pass at some point in the postseason. I have seen that bite Dalton in the past and it just got me thinking.It doesn't have to be 50-50 run vs pass, but maybe 95-5 at least?

Good points, and this game really has me excited.....I hope I can get off work Friday night to go with my dad.

One thing though about the smithie offense....If they aren't passing the ball, it's because the run game is that good. I'm sure all you guys remember back in 2002 when they were playing in the title game, they got that lead and instead of doing what everyone knew they should do...run the football, schrock comes out and passes the game away. He knows the wing-T offense and knows what kind of players he needs to be successful. I do think when you get to the playoffs you need to be able to run and pass....but if your built on the run, then that is what you do, and Smithville has had a lot of success with that wing-T offense.

OQB, You're dead on with that post. And also, like I have said before. The Smithies have confidence in the pass game. The coaches and players do. This question is for everyone on here, as a coach, wouldn't you want to do what you can to minimize turnovers and keep your defense off of the field as long as possible if you could?

I believe Smithville has 3 turnovers this year. 2 of those were Int's during Hail Mary situations. Should be a great game this weekend!

This week's OHSAA computer rankings are at their site.

Norwayne #2 Region 13
Orrville #8 Region 13
Smithville #6 Region 19
Hillsdale #16 Region 19

Wow. Even with a down schedule so far, it's weird to see a 5-0 team in the bottom half of the region. Hillsdale needs a big win against either Smithville or Norwayne and the win against Waynedale. Otherwise, they might be outside looking in at 8-2.

Yes that schedule has hurt the Falcons as their 1st 5 opponents 2-23 record has given them only 7.5 second level points, while Smithville has 36 , 2nd level, and #1 Wynford has 53 , 2nd level pts. It looks like the Smithville/Hillsdale loser is out , unless they can beat Norwayne they might be close to 8th. Definitely more than just league standings at stake this week.

If they finish 8-2, I think Hillsdale will be ouside looking in.

I don't think Smithville has an easy road either, with 3 of their final 5 being against NWN, Rittman and Chippewa. There won't be many points in those games. If Hillsdales fall after beating Dalton is any indicator, the Smithies could experience the same thing after their run through the bottom of the league.

I'm no harbin expert, but this week seems like a MUST win for both teams.

The way region 19 is looking 8-2 may not get it for anyone from the WCAL. I hope not, but the numbers projections last week looked grave. Here's hoping this weeks Pasteur projections look better.

Red Rum;913180 wrote:If they finish 8-2, I think Hillsdale will be ouside looking in.

I don't think Smithville has an easy road either, with 3 of their final 5 being against NWN, Rittman and Chippewa. There won't be many points in those games. If Hillsdales fall after beating Dalton is any indicator, the Smithies could experience the same thing after their run through the bottom of the league.

I'm no harbin expert, but this week seems like a MUST win for both teams.

The way region 19 is looking 8-2 may not get it for anyone from the WCAL. I hope not, but the numbers projections last week looked grave. Here's hoping this weeks Pasteur projections look better.

The thing Smithville has going for them is, their 2 non-league wins are against teams that will continue to win some. Fairless has CVCA, Indian Valley, and Tuslaw as bearable opponents left. That would put them at 6-4. Better than any of Hillsdale's non-league opponents are likely to do. Same with Mogadore, having most of their schedule as winnable from here on out.

Ultimately, the team that goes out and wins doesn't have to worry about all that (unless you're Newcomerstown in 2001). That's what these teams are gonna focus on, I'm sure. Should make for an AWESOME game.

I dont know much about football....in fact im more a stand on the fence type of guy...but I thought I would share a little from previous posts

1_beast;888719 wrote:I'D like to agree, however...it seems MAKING the playoffs in R19 is a little tougher....if im not mistaken, teams 5-8 in R17 last year would not have had the Harbins to get in R19

Go Falcons;888955 wrote:The changes in divisions should help Hillsdale.
Last year Hillsdale:
9-1: 7th R18; 16.7 avg, 35 level 1, 132 level 2
played: this year:
1 - D IV - 3
5- D V - 5
4- D VI - 2

Dawson-Bryant
8-2: 8th D5 R19; 16.9 avg, 37 level 1, 132 level 2
played:
2- D II
5- D IV
2- D V
1- D VI

Red Rum;889044 wrote:After a little thought and research (and I stress the word "little")

In 2009 & 2010, it was definitely a lot harder to qualify in region 19
2010
8th qualifier in R19 points-16.9
8th qualifier in R18 points-12.44
8th qualifier in R17 points-13.45
2009
8th qualifier in R19 points-17.9
8th qualifier in R18 points-13.3
8th qualifier in R17 points-13.55

In the preceeding 2 years (2007 & 2008) it was much more even
2008
8th qualifier in R19 points-14.75
8th qualifier in R18 points-15.25
8th qualifier in R17 points-14.2
2007
8th qualifier in R19 points-14.21
8th qualifier in R18 points-14.15
8th qualifier in R17 points-16.15

The 2 seasons before.....Region 19 was the easiest to qualify from

Then I had an epiphany!!! (I don't get those too often)
Everything changes every other year with the head count(Duh!!)......So this is basically a fresh year with new region assignments and history is out the window.


You guys will have to excuse me, I ain't too bright (just a little more than Paul). afterall, I was the one who bought 50-50 tickets at Smithville.

Good Luck to everyone this evening

Interesting chatter from week 3 concerning Harbins/Regions....

I am new to this web site, this is my first posting. I read them all the time and just thought i would finally put in my two cents.....

I have been reading about "running up the score" on just about every forum website and what put me over the edge was a post that really dogged Norwayne against Rittman. The post stated that Norwayne was running it up when they scored the last touchdown. Just a few thoughts from that play....I was at the game, at that point Norwayne's offense was made up of mostly freshman...the poster stated that Norwayne ran a trick play where the quarterback hid the ball and ran around the end.....this play was a read play yuo are supposed to read the D end and either hand it off or keep it......he kept it and ran in for a TD......my problem with the so called "running up the score"....what is a team supposed to do when they have freshman in and other team still has their 1st string in, they put 11 in the box and blitz all of them...this kid was running for his life!!!!!!....In my opinion he wasnt running up the score he was trying to save his own life!!!!!!

What really gets me is when a team is trying not to run the score up and they put in the JV or even the Freshman, the other team keeps the 1st string in and blitzes everybody......that shows no class at all!!!!!......

So when is the right time to take your 1st string out??.......Norwayne took theirs out at the start of the second half. is that fair to Norwayne?? or any other team....I understand you dont want to humiliate the other team but you also need to work your first team. Game situations and practice are two different things. With teams like Norwayne, Hillsdale, and Smithville they need the work they are fighting for a WCAL and possible deep run into the playoffs.

Sorry i rambled on and on....but just needed to get that off my chest. I am not sure what the answer is but i know its not....put freshman and JV in against another teams 1st string and let them blitz 11 everyplay!!!!!

What are your thoughts????????????

Where is everyone finding the computer rankings? I checked Joe Eitel and they were not up yet.