Anybody a fan of his or listen to his Radio Show. I have been listening for a few months and read his book Total Money Makeover. While anything he says is nothing more than common sense, I do think more people should pay attention to what he says.

I have been on his program a few months and I already notice changes in my lifestyle from before. My wife and I make pretty decent money and we never had written budgets or attacked our debt(student loans, cars, credit cards etc) the way we should have.

I can't stand his high horse, especially when the amount of money he exploits from these people that need help is ridiculous.

He's a lot less expensive than using a financial planner.

Cat Food Flambe' wrote: He's a lot less expensive than using a financial planner.

Financial planners don't claim to be good christians helping people who need it the most.

You can buy his book for 5 bucks on Amazon. Listening to his show I never get the high horse vibe you speak of.

Not for everyone I guess. I don't feel exploited. He seems genuine in wanting to help people.

My new Boss started following his stuff mainly due to another employee spouting Ramsey's stuff. Yes said employee even went to his seminar he had locally. The Boss became completely debt free. Then went to buy a house and couldn't float the loan because of not having enough credit. He could qualify IF he became a signer on his girlfriend's Credit Card. She qualified to get a loan for the house, being in debt, but he couldn't on his own. Go figure.

I guess a little debt can be a good thing.

LJ wrote:Financial planners don't claim to be good christians helping people who need it the most.

That makes no sense. Did you intend to say, "Financial planners don't claim to be good Christians screwing people who need it the most."?

Most of my fellow Christians believe helping people who need it most to be a good thing....financial planner, nurse, garbage collector, or otherwise.

Believer don't play the my 'fellow Christians' card. Christians are the most hypocritical people on earth. I am/was one, but due to the 'holier than thou' people that's why I'm not involved in it anymore. I guess I can get a free pass now by my slamming of you and the rest of the Christians by saying "bless his/their heart" and it's all forgiven...Works for my Grandma and other Christians, however this is not what this thread is about.

But, back to Dave Ramsey.

Curly J wrote: Believer don't play the my 'fellow Christians' card. Christians are the most hypocritical people on earth. I am/was one, but due to the 'holier than thou' people that's why I'm not involved in it anymore. I guess I can get a free pass now by my slamming of you and the rest of the Christians by saying "bless his/their heart" and it's all forgiven...Works for my Grandma and other Christians, however this is not what this thread is about.

But, back to Dave Ramsey.

Christian bashing's in vogue these days. It's OK to bash the "believers" but not OK for Christians to counter-bash hence they be hypocrites. I get it.

It's like former smokers ragging on smokers for smelling like ash trays.

As a "former" Christian I'm sure you feel much better doing whatever you want and not having to feel hypocritical about it.

The path of least resistance is an easier ride isn't it?

Fortunately I have thick enough skin to take the Christian bashing and realize I'm not perfect nor do I pretend to be.

The cool thing about Jesus Christ is despite our hypocrisy he accepts us nonetheless. Damned good thing huh?

OT, I'd say my experience has been that there tends to be an inverse relationship between how much one wears religion on their sleeve and how well they live it. I don't know Mr. Ramsey, so I won't comment specifically.

As far as his five day a week infomercial aka his radio show goes, once you get past his sounding like Mr. Garrison from South Park, it's not a terrible listen. It's certainly no worse than the majority of talk radio. Regarding the content, I'd say that the 85% (a number I pulled out of the air as he sometimes does) of advice that is pure common sense is a reasonably decent plan for those who would call his show (people who are bad with money). A few random things that bother me, in no particular order, are:

Any disagreement with him or his plan is nearly totally prohibited. Instead of saying that there are multiple legitimate opinions and this is his, people who question him are accused of being passive-aggressive and dismissed (pot. kettle. black). Again, I believe his advice would work better than having no plan at all, but the all-in, cult-like quality of it is mildly disturbing.

How nearly everything in his world is an absolute. For example, all debt is bad. No, Mr. Ramsey, it is not. Your financial problems and eventual bankruptcy were not caused by debt, they were caused by your misuse of debt. If one is careless and accidentally cuts off their leg with a chainsaw, don't blame the tool (and yes Mr. Ramsey, despite your protests to the contrary, debt can indeed be a tool, a powerful one).

Shaping (and sometime misshaping) facts to support his conclusions. This bothers me in general. I'm a person who draws conclusions from the available data. Some people decide on an outcome, and mold the facts to support it. For example, he cites a study that people who use credit cards will spend more than those who use cash. True, but only partially so. What he chooses to ignore in this "fact" is that the cause and effect are often the opposite. I don't spend more because I'm using a credit card, I'm using a credit card because I'm spending more.

In short, his advice can be helpful at a basic level, but don't worship at the altar of Dave.

Just a quick question. How is owing someone else money a good thing? If you can pay cash for something, why not?

I'm confused how having a credit card and paying that company interest plus what you owe a positive?

I think some delve to deep into his message which I interpret as its better to keep your money, invest it for retirement, kids college, being able to do what you want and giving back when necessary.

Love him. My parents got my wife and I to take his Financial Peace class at our church, and it's the best thing we've ever done. We don't make a whole lot of money, but we still live comfortably. His program has really helped us manage our money and make sure it goes where it should. He's a great guy!

Curly J wrote: Believer don't play the my 'fellow Christians' card. Christians are the most hypocritical people on earth. I am/was one, but due to the 'holier than thou' people that's why I'm not involved in it anymore. I guess I can get a free pass now by my slamming of you and the rest of the Christians by saying "bless his/their heart" and it's all forgiven...Works for my Grandma and other Christians, however this is not what this thread is about.

But, back to Dave Ramsey.

Wow, ALL Christians are hypocrites? What a mighty broad brush you are painting with. So, are all Muslims terrorists? Keeping with your logic; all people from Mexican descent living in America are illegal aliens too? Yeah, and what about athiests? All athiests are great people I suppose?

Perhaps you should think before you post? I mean seriously. As a Christian, I would certainly agree with you that there are Christians who are hypocrites, but most are not. There are bad cops, bad teachers, and even bad doctors but again, most are not.

By the way, Dave Ramsey is great. If you follow his common sense principles you will get out of debt and build wealth.

According to some people though, because he is a Christian he shouldn't get paid for the services he provides. Shame on him for earning an honest living by charging nominal fees for his expertise.

All debt is not bad. Using someone elses cash to purchase an appreciating asset can be a good financial move.

P.S. I do not have a mortgage and am generally debt free. We paid off our home in 15 years. and do not have auto loans.

My wife and I took his local class, and I feel that it was very beneficial, and if anything else makes you think before you spend. I look at his information as bullet in your holster. You may never need to use it, but it is still probably not a bad thing to have.

Curly J wrote: Believer don't play the my 'fellow Christians' card. Christians are the most hypocritical people on earth. I am/was one, but due to the 'holier than thou' people that's why I'm not involved in it anymore. I guess I can get a free pass now by my slamming of you and the rest of the Christians by saying "bless his/their heart" and it's all forgiven...Works for my Grandma and other Christians, however this is not what this thread is about.

But, back to Dave Ramsey.

So were you a Christian for the people in the Church or for God?

pmoney25 wrote: Just a quick question. How is owing someone else money a good thing? If you can pay cash for something, why not?

If I can get a post-tax return on my money in excess of the interest I'm paying, I'll end up ahead of where I would be if I paid the debt. The most obvious example of this would be the interest-free loan. As part of the home remodel project we're doing, we are buying a new TV and some stereo speakers. The local big box store is offering to finance this purchase for three years with no finance charges. Why on Earth would I pay cash, when I could just keep the money in a savings account and earn a couple hundred bucks?

I'm confused how having a credit card and paying that company interest plus what you owe a positive?

I'm confused where you saw a post saying that credit card debt is a good thing, it most certainly wasn't in mine. Borrowing money to finance lifestyle (which is the cause of much if not most credit card debt) is not smart. As Con_alma stated, debt to improve one's financial position can be smart.

I think some delve to deep into his message which I interpret as its better to keep your money, invest it for retirement, kids college, being able to do what you want and giving back when necessary.

Nothing wrong with that sentiment at all, but that sentiment and this mantra of "must be debt free to be successful" are not one and the same.

never heard the radio show, but read the book. most of it was common sense which kind of pissed me off as i was expecting to learn something from the supposed financial wizard (so my sister would have me believe).

"Why on Earth would I pay cash, when I could just keep the money in a savings account and earn a couple hundred bucks?"

In the current environment if you can tell me where I can get an account with a halfway decent return I'd love to hear it - all of our accounts have craptacular rates now.

Joking aside, Ramsey exists due to the financial illiteracy of this country and the failure of our educational system to address it. I'm not saying he's bad, or even wrong, but to make (an admittedly imperfect) analogy his advice is like teaching someone with a broken right leg to be able to hop on the left leg, rather than mending the right leg. In addition to common sense, which there is certainly nothing wrong with, he instructs principles that presupposes that the listener is incapable of ever understanding basic economics in any manner other than emotionally. Back to the educational standpoint, to the extent we have standardized testing and nationalized curriculums, it is ridiculous that we don't teach basic living economics, everyone should know how an interest rate works, what a mortgage is, the time value of money, etc.

Debt isn't the issue, its the ignorance of what debt is. Unfortunately we have a current environment where this ignorance is encouraged. "Credit cards are evil!" Yeah, right, my Discover Card (yes I admit we use Discover) pays us 1% on all purchases, and 5% in different quarters for different products, including high spending matters like groceries, gas and travel. We MAKE money off of our credit cards. Although I'm not sure how much longer, because we're regulating the system in a manner that is a race to the bottom.

"...Joking aside, Ramsey exists due to the financial illiteracy of this country and the failure of our educational system to address it. ..."

This is a great comment. I was fortunate to be asked to speak on behalf of the Ohio Business Teachers Association to an Ohio Senate subcommittee in support of adding a 1/2 credit of financial education as a requirement for graduation of HS in Ohio. I think it's needed and should be a minimum expectation of those we bless with a HS diploma.

If you don't mind my asking, how amenable were they to your suggestions?

I don't mind at all....there was politics involved....imagine that. A senator was willing to be a sponsor to the idea and the dept of ed was involved. The OBTA wanted to be certain that a "qualified" or certified individual was required to teach the class. They wanted an additional level of position security. Sounded like a union issue to me. They didn't want a home economics teacher or a shop teacher covering the classes.

They also were seeking a minimum of a 1/2 credit of technology required. Seems reasonable.

The concern was that it open up another can of worms regarding the perception of unfunded mandates coming from the State level. It's been quite some time...maybe 4 years and I don't think too much has matured from the effort.

Edit...I wasn't offering suggestions as much as a private sector voice supporting the need for such additions to the HS core curriculum. I was asked by the OBTA to speak on their behalf.

I openly admit I was not taught either by my parents nor my schooling the importance of money, how to handle money and basically what a budget was.

Since I've entered the workforce after college I have been blessed to have good jobs where I make good money. My issue isnt related to not having money it is what I am doing with my money.

we don't have much debt. two car loans,house and few small student loans. Also Dave openly admits his program is not about math or numbers but emotional and behavioral processes. His point is to get people to feel good about handling money and feel good about paying something off.

I follow the philosophy that the borrower is slave to the lender. In two years I will be debt free, owe no money and I will feel good.

While some of you make valid points about having debt. I don't think there is anything wrong with being debt free, investing money, and giving back.

believer wrote:

LJ wrote:Financial planners don't claim to be good christians helping people who need it the most.

That makes no sense. Did you intend to say, "Financial planners don't claim to be good Christians screwing people who need it the most."?

Most of my fellow Christians believe helping people who need it most to be a good thing....financial planner, nurse, garbage collector, or otherwise.

matdad wrote: By the way, Dave Ramsey is great. If you follow his common sense principles you will get out of debt and build wealth.

According to some people though, because he is a Christian he shouldn't get paid for the services he provides. Shame on him for earning an honest living by charging nominal fees for his expertise.

Neither of those quote is anything near what I said. A small fee? His 5 hour entrepreneur class is $1000 per person. $1000 PER PERSON

That is not the going rate for that type of class, that is robbery.

And Believer, I have no clue what the hell you were trying to make up that I said.