In other airline related news to keep us safe from the dreaded terrorist, the FAA has no clue who owns 119,000 aircraft in this country. I don't know about everyone else, but between the TSA pat downs and the FAA not knowing who owns an airplane, I feel safer going to the airport already.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_misplaced_planes

In an unrelated opinion, I think it's amazing that some people still think the government is the right entity to handle the health care, and all the records that come with it, of over 300 million plus people. Shoot, if they can't keep track of all the aircraft in this country, after what happened on 9/11, I want them keeping track of my medical records. :rolleyes:

This doesn't surprise me. Determining who actually owns the airplane isn't as easy as you might think, between shared ownership, lease-buybacks, securitization and all other kinds of ownership structures. Probably one of the more complicated assets to determine ownership of. Ownership also means very little with regard to who controls and operates the plane.

gut;596755 wrote:This doesn't surprise me. Determining who actually owns the airplane isn't as easy as you might think, between shared ownership, lease-buybacks, securitization and all other kinds of ownership structures. Probably one of the more complicated assets to determine ownership of. Ownership also means very little with regard to who controls and operates the plane.

Hold on for a sec...the government (i.e. the police) can identify who registers vehicles in seconds and there are what...over 40,000,000 of them running about the states? I have to believe there are millions more cars than planes running around, so what's so hard about identifying them?

In order to ride in a commercial aircraft, one must be either graphically photographed or sexually assaulted. Maybe that's next for registering your car at the DMV??

Another clear example of why BIG government has no place in this country. Too many components, no one has any idea of who's supposed to do what (they expect someone else is in charge, no clear cut responsibilities); hence the FAA doesn't know who owns 119,000 planes. Reduce the size and scope of government and we wouldn't have these types of issues IMO.

BGFalcons82;597200 wrote:Hold on for a sec...the government (i.e. the police) can identify who registers vehicles in seconds and there are what...over 40,000,000 of them running about the states? I have to believe there are millions more cars than planes running around, so what's so hard about identifying them?

In order to ride in a commercial aircraft, one must be either graphically photographed or sexually assaulted. Maybe that's next for registering your car at the DMV??

Airplanes have often have very complicated ownership structures and the debt instruments (the lien holder or owner) often get traded and sold. Far more difficult to keep track of than a car.

"Banks and finance companies that hold loans used to buy planes will be among those hardest hit, said David Warner, general counsel for the National Aircraft Finance Association. A bank's claim to an aircraft is often tied to the FAA registration, so lenders are having to hire more staff and buy computer systems to track hundreds of aircraft registrations, Warner said. "

gut;602808 wrote:Airplanes have often have very complicated ownership structures and the debt instruments (the lien holder or owner) often get traded and sold. Far more difficult to keep track of than a car.

Naturally. HOWEVER, such ownership STILL has to have a documented paper trail (which, unless the aircraft is internationally owned, shouldn't be that difficult to find).

To be fair, I don't work for the FAA. However, I would think THIS would be a bigger weakness in air security than even making sure I don't bring my cigar cutter on board (true story).

They probably mistook it for a circumcision tool.....

Thread Bomber;603549 wrote:They probably mistook it for a circumcision tool.....

Yeah, Maybe I should have dressed differently that day:

O-Trap;603542 wrote:Naturally. HOWEVER, such ownership STILL has to have a documented paper trail (which, unless the aircraft is internationally owned, shouldn't be that difficult to find).

To be fair, I don't work for the FAA. However, I would think THIS would be a bigger weakness in air security than even making sure I don't bring my cigar cutter on board (true story).

Actually, there's a good chance a large percentage ARE internationally owned because hedge funds and banks that own a lot of these entities usually structure a holding corp offshore for tax purposes.

I have no concerns over who owns an airplane, so long as they know who is flying it, when and where. What matters is who controls the airplane, and usually the owner/leaseholder is not the one controlling the asset. The main issue here seems to be they have a lot of dated registrations and old tags on mothballed planes could be being used illegally.