They released the AA Altoona Curve manager Matt Walbeck, just weeks after winning the Eastern League with alot of his talent being moved up this year as many AAA players landed in Pittsburgh. I mean, why would they want to keep this guy around? He might infuse a winning attitude into some of the younger players. Here's the link

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/478671-pittsburgh-pirates-part-ways-with-altoona-manager-matt-walbeck-more-bad-pr

Well, to be honest, the only person of note he lost to AAA was Presley and he gained a few A+ pitchers like Morris and Locke. Guys like Moskos and Hankins had a cup of coffee in AAA, but failed and were sent back and Negyrch (sp) did good in AAA, but was sent back for the final month or so of the AA season). It seemed like the organization looked at AA as this year's A+, in that a title was going to be won, and didn't really move up the truly good players outside of Presley (Owens and Wilson for two pitchers I thought earned a shot at a higher level). But in reality, by the end of the year, AAA was 4-A players and a few fringe prospects, but hardly any notable players.

Off Bucs Dugout, I read a really vague reasoning for the firing that centered around Walbeck wanting a higher position or else and the management not sold on him being a "team player", so they released him in order for him to have the max amount of time to get a role with another franchise.

My Opinion:
1. PR blunder to fire a guy in a success-starved organization who won a title immediately after doing so.
2. Who's to say said success was more players than him? Most of his team won a title at Lynchburg last year. The franchise's minor league system has gotten a hell of a lot better under Huntington and Co. I expected Altoona to make the playoffs, if not win it all, just due to the talent they had. Next year, I'll expect Indy to at least be around the front of their division for the first half of the year. I won't go farther than that, as there's a legit shot that many of the reasons they'll be in that position will be replacing dead-end guys in the MLB line-up over the final couple months.
3. Going off the PR blunder bit, it sucks that no true reasoning can really be given, as considering the team's lack of success, it's obvious the worst will be assumed. But it'd be really fucking unethical to blast a former employee publicly when letting him go due to what seems to be a behind-the-scenes issue.
4. I can only hope that Russell follows as soon as possible after the end of the season. My honest opinion is that the team could be .500 or so next year...if they have a competent manager who actually gets pissed off when things go wrong. On Bucs Dugout, I read a quote from D.J. Carrasco before the Arizona series of a couple weeks back where he essentially said that he didn't think the players cared as much about getting beat as the staff did. If that's the case, the staff should be kicking ass to let the players know who's boss. Russell comes off as too passive for that. I want a guy who won't tolerate constant losing...not a guy like Russell, who looks like a "well, this is bad, but we're growing and learning how to do things the right way and everyone's a winner!" guy.
3.

Heretic has done his homework, as Walbeck was like 60-80ish last year. It's not the first Pirate coach (Donnelly and Perry? the infield coach last year) that was fired/not renewed/ or just left. Maybe Walbeck wanted to follow this team to AAA figuring he couldn't lose and then would have a chance in MLB.
I agree that Russell doesn't seem to have the whole team pushing. We have no pitcher that is a "stopper". We need more talent at the major league level to not have another losing year. Having the worst pitching and hitting is not a good formula for any team or manager.

Yeah. And, as far as pitching goes, 2012 is the earliest it will be potentially truly good. AAA this year really has nothing to offer, so the team will have to hope that Ohlendorf is healthy and effective, McDonald can build on his promise, Lincoln can do better in his second go-around and Morton can learn the art of not being a head-case (or at least 3 of those 4 things). And they really need quality long-middle relievers. I have confidence in Meek and Hanrahan being solid. I think Resop's shown he can be ONE bridge guy. But who else?

Offense, I'm less worried about. They'll be inconsistent due to youth, but as guys like A. McCutchen, Tabata, Walker, Alvarez...grow together, the better they'll perform. Like, they're 1-2 vs. Florida with one to go. Nine runs in a loss, five in a win and nothing today where pretty much nobody but Bowker and Cedeno did anything at the plate. That's all inconsistency. Hit the hell out of the ball one day, do nothing the next.

I said elsewhere that I'd like (a) a more fiery manager AND (b) for their off-season veteran role-player acquisitions to be guys with the "win or fucking die" mentality to press the young guys into taking losses more personally.

I thought this thread was going to be about East African pirates who released a hostage. Maybe this thread belongs in the Pro-Sports forum.

Did you think Mienkiewicz (sp) was one of those types. Certainly late in his carreer, but almost every AB was a quality one. We don't need any Burnitz or Iwamura, or Derrick Bells or Geo Hendricks at this point.

How many shutouts this year? Just crazy. Have any 105 loss managers ever been retained at any level? The morning espn was reporting that "sources close to the Pirates say this is John Russell's last game as a Pirate manager". Wasn't he fired by the Pirates before as an instructor before Tracy, only to be brought back as boss? And what would have been a reasonable won/loss total given the talent that the Pirates had this year? 72-90? Despite lack of talent, and the fact that at least 5 games that would have been won had not the mid year bullpen been depleted, I still think if the loses exceeded 100, Russell would end up being the next sacrificial lamb. Then the question is "who's next?" And it won't be Joe Torre.

Leyland, Lamont, McClendon, Mackanin(interim), Tracy, Russell........

Doug M(not gonna event try spelling it)? Yes. And the sad thing is that he wanted to come back and was surprised they didn't bring him back...instead picking up new retreads to fill out the roster. Think he was injured most of the year the year after he was with Pittsburgh, so it might not have made any difference, but in the time he was there, I thought he was a good utility pick-up.

As far as a reasonable w/l record, I would have gone with 70-75 wins. But it seemed like the list of underperformers outweighed the "exceeded/met expectations" group by far. At least in the context that the underperformers were horrible most of the time, while the exceeded/met group was more solid than great.

Exceeded or Met: Walker, Tabata, Alvarez all were very good in their first real MLB action. Walker especially exceeded, as he hadn't shown much of an ability to hit with consistency in his entire career. Meek and Hanrahan were both great (with H's ERA inflated a good bit by one or two horrible outings) with Hanrahan striking out 100 in a set-up/closer role. McCutchen was solid...maybe a bit below expectations, but not bad. He had an ugly mid-season stretch, but was overall good. Blah guys like Karstens and Burres at times looked like our best starters. While that's because our starters sucked, you have to applaud their efforts. McDonald looks like a potential good starter if he can go deeper into games. Resop looks like a good acquisition.

Below: Ohlendorf was a horrible bad-luck victim. Injured a lot and got no run support while healthy. When your ERA is 4.05ish, 1-10 is bizarre. Morton was a huge disappointment, completing imploding after a decent season last year. Duke stunk. Maholm was average the first half of the year and then had an extended horrible stretch. Milledge still has no power. Doumit was a blah hitter who can't field worth anything. Jones came down to earth after opening eyes last year. After the trading of Carrasco, Lopez and Dotel, the middle relief was horrid. Church was a huge disappointment. Crosby was not much help as a sub. LaRoche officially became a bust after starting to show a bit of promise last year. Jeff Clement might be joining him. As well as Steve Pierce, who was showing a bit of promise before getting injured. Guys like Delwyn Young and Cedeno were just there. Not horrible, but not worth comment. Russell stunk as a manager...which probably falls under "met expectations".