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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 9:48am
Can Jon Diebler make himself into more than a 3-point shooter? If he can't or doesn't, what will be his role next year?
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 10:00am
Are you trying to bait me?
To try to take an unbiased approach, there is no reason to think that he will ever be more than just a shooter. He will be a big part of next year's team, but I hope that Matta has the wherewithal to judge his playing time game by game. I think this past year, Matta said these are my 5-6 guys and we are either going to lose or win with them, and no one else.
Next year, Matta will have options, so if Diebler gets 10 minutes or whatever in the first half and is shooting with confidence and making shots, then he gets a lot of minutes in the second half. If he plays like he did against Tennessee, then after 5 minutes Matta should put him on the bench and hopefully has the option to play someone else that will produce something.
It's still mind boggling to me his stats during their tournament loss.
To try to take an unbiased approach, there is no reason to think that he will ever be more than just a shooter. He will be a big part of next year's team, but I hope that Matta has the wherewithal to judge his playing time game by game. I think this past year, Matta said these are my 5-6 guys and we are either going to lose or win with them, and no one else.
Next year, Matta will have options, so if Diebler gets 10 minutes or whatever in the first half and is shooting with confidence and making shots, then he gets a lot of minutes in the second half. If he plays like he did against Tennessee, then after 5 minutes Matta should put him on the bench and hopefully has the option to play someone else that will produce something.
It's still mind boggling to me his stats during their tournament loss.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 10:12am
Not really. I think players can bet better during the off-season. I saw glimpses of Diebler putting the ball on the floor and drawing fouls this past season. He isn't capable off finishing, but he is capable of drawing fouls on a dribble-drive.Are you trying to bait me?
Diebler can also work on his handle.Turner did and look what it did for his game. I guess the bottom line is that Diebler must get better if he wants meaningful minutes on a consistent basis.
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wkfan
Posts: 1,641
Apr 20, 2010 10:13am
Diebler will get significant minutes if he is shooting the ball well. Period.
He just hasn't shown that he can do things like defend, put the ball on the floor and create openings for himself that will keep him on the floor if he is not shooting the ball.
He just hasn't shown that he can do things like defend, put the ball on the floor and create openings for himself that will keep him on the floor if he is not shooting the ball.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 10:18am
Please don't compare him and his potential development to Turner. They came into OSU together, and it's pretty obvious over the course of three off seasons who has developed and who didn't.Prescott wrote: Diebler can also work on his handle.Turner did and look what it did for his game. I guess the bottom line is that Diebler must get better if he wants meaningful minutes on a consistent basis.
I don't want to say Diebler doesn't work on his game, because I hear that he's in the gym as much as anyone, but it really isn't showing. He looks so uncomfortable with the ball in his hands that the less he puts it on the ground the better.
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Swamp Fox
Posts: 2,218
Apr 20, 2010 10:24am
There's only so much practice can do to actually improve your game. I think that Jon has proven his value to the Buckeyes and I think he will get considerable minutes next season. When he's on, he simply has to be out there. When he isn't, I think he will be sitting more next year.
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Apr 20, 2010 10:44am
Diebler will get better, just as he has the past 3yrs. But he has his limitations and is what he is. Some accept that, some don't.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 11:04am
Has he really gotten better each year? Yea, maybe a little. But certainly not the way one could have reasonably expectedcentralbucksfan wrote: Diebler will get better, just as he has the past 3yrs. But he has his limitations and is what he is. Some accept that, some don't.
Freshman - 21 min, 5.9 ppg, 2.3 reb, 1.2 ast, 30% fg
Sophomore - 37 min, 11.2 ppg, 3.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 42% fg
Junior - 37 min, 13 ppg, 2.8 reb, 1.5 ast, 43% fg
Obviously he increased in confidence from his freshman to sophomore year, and you expect that naturally, but look at this other numbers. His assists were the same as his freshman year when he played almost half the minutes and his rebounding and assists numbers decreased from last year.
Not exactly what I would call getting better. I would call it maxing out.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 11:39am
Don't be so defensive. Nobody is saying that Diebler can be Turner. All I am saying is that Turner got better by working on his handle. Dielbler is capable of getting better, as well, if he puts in the time.Please don't compare him and his potential development to Turner.
krambman
Posts: 3,606
Apr 20, 2010 11:54am
This is what confused me the most in that game. Simmons came in and played 14 minutes in the first half for Lighty when he got into foul trouble. In those 14 minutes he went 3-4 from 3. Diebler on the other hand couldn't make anything. I thought that in the second half Matta should have sat Diebler and put Simmons back in, even if just for a few minutes. At that point we couldn't have done any worse at that position, and there's the chance that Simmons gets hot again, and if he doesn't, maybe the break helps clear Diebler's head and when he comes back in he gets hot. I will never understand why Matta didn't do this.thedynasty1998 wrote: Are you trying to bait me?
To try to take an unbiased approach, there is no reason to think that he will ever be more than just a shooter. He will be a big part of next year's team, but I hope that Matta has the wherewithal to judge his playing time game by game. I think this past year, Matta said these are my 5-6 guys and we are either going to lose or win with them, and no one else.
Next year, Matta will have options, so if Diebler gets 10 minutes or whatever in the first half and is shooting with confidence and making shots, then he gets a lot of minutes in the second half. If he plays like he did against Tennessee, then after 5 minutes Matta should put him on the bench and hopefully has the option to play someone else that will produce something.
It's still mind boggling to me his stats during their tournament loss.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 11:59am
I understand what you were saying, but my point being that I think it's an insult to Turner. Not Turner's abilities necessarily, but his work ethic. Turner came into OSU with Diebler and both went through the same offseason program. It's obvious who put in the work to actually improve their game and was dedicated at getting better.Prescott wrote:Don't be so defensive. Nobody is saying that Diebler can be Turner. All I am saying is that Turner got better by working on his handle. Dielbler is capable of getting better, as well, if he puts in the time.Please don't compare him and his potential development to Turner.
derek bomar
Posts: 3,722
Apr 20, 2010 12:06pm
you're assuming similar inputs will yield similar outputs...which isn't always the casethedynasty1998 wrote:I understand what you were saying, but my point being that I think it's an insult to Turner. Not Turner's abilities necessarily, but his work ethic. Turner came into OSU with Diebler and both went through the same offseason program. It's obvious who put in the work to actually improve their game and was dedicated at getting better.Prescott wrote:Don't be so defensive. Nobody is saying that Diebler can be Turner. All I am saying is that Turner got better by working on his handle. Dielbler is capable of getting better, as well, if he puts in the time.Please don't compare him and his potential development to Turner.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 12:24pm
Exactly!! I think one guy had a little more to work with. That doesn't mean Diebler can't make himself into more than a jump shooter.you're assuming similar inputs will yield similar outputs...which isn't always the case
I think the same way.This is what confused me the most in that game. Simmons came in and played 14 minutes in the first half for Lighty when he got into foul trouble. In those 14 minutes he went 3-4 from 3. Diebler on the other hand couldn't make anything. I thought that in the second half Matta should have sat Diebler and put Simmons back in, even if just for a few minutes. At that point we couldn't have done any worse at that position, and there's the chance that Simmons gets hot again, and if he doesn't, maybe the break helps clear Diebler's head and when he comes back in he gets hot. I will never understand why Matta didn't do this.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 12:35pm
Yea I know. It's like me practicing a spin move hour after hour, and it will never be as effective as Derek Bomar's.derek bomar wrote: you're assuming similar inputs will yield similar outputs...which isn't always the case
I just don't think you can say that Diebler can work in the offseason to improve, when based on his numbers from his sophomore to junior year, it shows a trend of him being maxed out in his abilities.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 12:56pm
I don't think you are being totally objective. His numbers show that he took 20 more free throws this year as compared to last year. Couldn't he improve enough to get to the free throw line more often?it shows a trend of him being maxed out in his abilities.
I do agree that it is unlikely for him to increase his 3-point shooting accuracy, since he did shoot 42% behind the arc. But, he was 35/70 in the (6) games before the horrible shooting performance against Tenn.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 1:16pm
I'm not really worried about his offensive abilities as much as his overall game. I don't know if he needs to get in a weightroom, work on his explosiveness or ball handling, but I think the thing where there is the greatest room for improvement is in the categories that many would consider to be of effort.Prescott wrote: I don't think you are being totally objective. His numbers show that he took 20 more free throws this year as compared to last year. Couldn't he improve enough to get to the free throw line more often?
I do agree that it is unlikely for him to increase his 3-point shooting accuracy, since he did shoot 42% behind the arc. But, he was 35/70 in the (6) games before the horrible shooting performance against Tenn.
As for the 20 more free throws, that's really not that significant of a number. And I don't know the reasoning behind it, but it might just be because OSU was better at getting him the ball late in games to get their best free throw shooter at the line.
But to say he was more aggressive because of increased free throws, I wouldn't necessarily buy into that. When his rebounding and assist numbers go down, it tells me that he was less aggressive this year.
derek bomar
Posts: 3,722
Apr 20, 2010 1:25pm
QFTthedynasty1998 wrote:Yea I know. It's like me practicing a spin move hour after hour, and it will never be as effective as Derek Bomar's.derek bomar wrote: you're assuming similar inputs will yield similar outputs...which isn't always the case
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 2:39pm
It is very to make this assertion with any type of certainty. The numbers you are referring to can be impacted by a wide range of circumstances. I would argue that his assists were down because Turner had the ball 90% of the time.His rebounding numbers are down because a few balls didn't bounce his way or the opponent's missed fewer shots this year.When his rebounding and assist numbers go down, it tells me that he was less aggressive this year.
CinciX12
Posts: 2,874
Apr 20, 2010 2:46pm
The odds are against Jon ever becoming more than just a shooter.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 2:51pm
Are you arguing that to be the case with Diebler or not?Prescott wrote: The numbers you are referring to can be impacted by a wide range of circumstances. I would argue that his assists were down because Turner had the ball 90% of the time.His rebounding numbers are down because a few balls didn't bounce his way or the opponent's missed fewer shots this year.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 2:55pm
I am not arguing at all. I am merely saying that more research and film study wouls be needed to make that assertion based on those numbers.Are you arguing that to be the case with Diebler or not?
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Apr 20, 2010 2:58pm
Stats do NOT always paint the right picture. ANYONE who has watched Deibler since his frosh year, KNOWS he has improved his game.thedynasty1998 wrote:Has he really gotten better each year? Yea, maybe a little. But certainly not the way one could have reasonably expectedcentralbucksfan wrote: Diebler will get better, just as he has the past 3yrs. But he has his limitations and is what he is. Some accept that, some don't.
Freshman - 21 min, 5.9 ppg, 2.3 reb, 1.2 ast, 30% fg
Sophomore - 37 min, 11.2 ppg, 3.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 42% fg
Junior - 37 min, 13 ppg, 2.8 reb, 1.5 ast, 43% fg
Obviously he increased in confidence from his freshman to sophomore year, and you expect that naturally, but look at this other numbers. His assists were the same as his freshman year when he played almost half the minutes and his rebounding and assists numbers decreased from last year.
Not exactly what I would call getting better. I would call it maxing out.
Again, your a hater, and can't see it clearly. Most everyone on here knows this.
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Apr 20, 2010 3:00pm
And this I would agree with. He has his limitations. He is a decent athlete, but at that level, he isn't that great of one. Quickness isn't very good. Although it can be improved...wont' be enough to just blow by a good defender. He is what he is. Some need to learn to just accept it and move on.CinciX12 wrote: The odds are against Jon ever becoming more than just a shooter.
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Prescott
Posts: 2,569
Apr 20, 2010 3:07pm
I hope Diebler doesn't think that way.Some need to learn to just accept it and move on.
thedynasty1998
Posts: 6,844
Apr 20, 2010 3:11pm
I respect that argument. But I will also say that over the course of 30 games, often times the stats don't lie.Prescott wrote:I am not arguing at all. I am merely saying that more research and film study wouls be needed to make that assertion based on those numbers.Are you arguing that to be the case with Diebler or not?