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Should Ohio change its Division Structure ??

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Should Ohio change its Division Structure ??
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 9:06 AM
I was just sitting here getting ready to watch the BTN, PSU vs MSU, and was thinking of Ohio's division structure on whether it would be better to go to just one division for individual sports like California and New Jersey or adding a 4th division.....both have there pros and cons.....Just thought it would be a great topic of discussion......Lets hear it !!
Feb 16, 2010 9:06am
G

girevik

Member

97 posts
Feb 16, 2010 10:30 AM
How many high schools have wrestling in Ohio? There should be that many divisions, that way everyone is a winner.
Feb 16, 2010 10:30am
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 16, 2010 10:42 AM
This is a no-brainer. One Division, 32-man bracket, top eight All Ohio. If you absolutely have to appease the "we shouldn't cut the amount of qualifers" crowd, you can make it a 64-man bracket. That way you'll have more state qualifiers then the present system. But you'll still crown one State Champion per weight.
Feb 16, 2010 10:42am
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 11:04 AM
Bitterrunner-up wrote: This is a no-brainer. One Division, 32-man bracket, top eight All Ohio. If you absolutely have to appease the "we shouldn't cut the ammount of qualifers" crowd, you can make it a 64-man bracket. That way you'll have more state qualifiers then the present system. But you'll still crown one State Champion per weight.
This is kind of how I'm thinking also bitter.......seems to be alot more 4Xers now than in the past.......would make for some great match ups in the Schott. !!
Feb 16, 2010 11:04am
B

buddy

Junior Member

15 posts
Feb 16, 2010 11:43 AM
If you want to build wrestling in the state, one division is not the way to go. Any good wrestlers will transfer to the better programs and destroy the struggling programs. We have high school nationals where there is only one champ per weight. Football has 6 divisions and it does not seem to matter to those schools that they qualified for state in division 5 or 6. They still made it to state and their communities were excited. Minnesota changed the way they do their divisions with great success. That might be one to look into, but with the strength of ohio wrestling why not give more kids a chance? Why not make it possible for a home grown team to place at state or win it like in other sports? I don't believe this has happened since 1992 in Ohio. There are more 4 timers i believe because of the knowledge of what weight everyone is going unlike the times pre internet and January certification>
Feb 16, 2010 11:43am
W

WGBplayer

Member

79 posts
Feb 16, 2010 11:54 AM
4 IS FOR SURE NOT THE WAY TO GO! While we're at it... get rid of the 7/8th place. In my opinion it was a big mistake implementing that.
Feb 16, 2010 11:54am
B

bravesman

Member

47 posts
Feb 16, 2010 12:11 PM
My suggestions for when we switch to duals for state:
2 divisions,
1 for private and open enrollment schools
1 for everybody else regardless of size

right now everybody is playing under different sets of rules. how can you compare a team with kids that only live in that community within the neighborhoods of 1 school with a team that has kids that live sometimes an 1 hours drive away??? in my community, if a kid wants to switch from 1 of our 3 high schools to another, they have to sit out 1 year. next community over, it is open between the 3 high schools...

then change names from "sectionals and districts" to "districts and regionals" so wrestling does not get screwed on the banners in the gym... righ now many other sports raise a banner that says district champions when it is the equivilant of winning the sectionals in wrestling. don't want to take anything away from them, just add to wrestling!!!

for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)
Feb 16, 2010 12:11pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 12:22 PM
bravesman wrote: My suggestions for when we switch to duals for state:
2 divisions,
1 for private and open enrollment schools
1 for everybody else regardless of size

right now everybody is playing under different sets of rules. how can you compare a team with kids that only live in that community within the neighborhoods of 1 school with a team that has kids that live sometimes an 1 hours drive away??? in my community, if a kid wants to switch from 1 of our 3 high schools to another, they have to sit out 1 year. next community over, it is open between the 3 high schools...

then change names from "sectionals and districts" to "districts and regionals" so wrestling does not get screwed on the banners in the gym... righ now many other sports raise a banner that says district champions when it is the equivilant of winning the sectionals in wrestling. don't want to take anything away from them, just add to wrestling!!!

for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)
Interesting...........where would you put say Graham in the divisions....... ??? ( this is the kind of discussion I was trying to get going )......
Feb 16, 2010 12:22pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 16, 2010 12:25 PM
bravesman wrote: for the individual tourney:
same 1 closed school division, 1 open school division,
a 32 man bracket, then it is fair to place the top 8...
4 individual qualifiers from 8 regions:
-toledo and dayton (4)
-central (4)
-cincinnati (4)
-south and east (4)
-2 in cleveland (8)
-2 in akron/canton (8)
I like everything here except the two Divisions.

Bam175 wrote:
Interesting...........where would you put say Graham in the divisions....... ??? ( this is the kind of discussion I was trying to get going )......
I assume that in Bravesman's set-up, Graham would be in the Private/open enrollment Division.
Feb 16, 2010 12:25pm
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Feb 16, 2010 12:54 PM
heres one contradiction....where does the schools fit in that have open enrollment...BUT have NO student athletes from outside the district. The school i support DOES have open enrollment, but our team is made up of 100% entirely 'local' kids who have came through the program and live IN the District
Feb 16, 2010 12:54pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 16, 2010 12:59 PM
1_beast wrote: heres one contradiction....where does the schools fit in that have open enrollment...BUT have NO student athletes from outside the district. The school i support DOES have open enrollment, but our team is made up of 100% entirely 'local' kids who have came through the program and live IN the District

In Bravesman's system I think you'd still be in the Private/Open Enrollment Division because while you don't have them now, you could.
Feb 16, 2010 12:59pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 16, 2010 1:07 PM
As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
Feb 16, 2010 1:07pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 1:12 PM
Con_Alma wrote: As you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fof the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
Great Point..........
Feb 16, 2010 1:12pm
T

TigerRaider

Member

48 posts
Feb 16, 2010 2:57 PM
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Feb 16, 2010 2:57pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 3:02 PM
buddy wrote: If you want to build wrestling in the state, one division is not the way to go. Any good wrestlers will transfer to the better programs and destroy the struggling programs. We have high school nationals where there is only one champ per weight. Football has 6 divisions and it does not seem to matter to those schools that they qualified for state in division 5 or 6. They still made it to state and their communities were excited. Minnesota changed the way they do their divisions with great success. That might be one to look into, but with the strength of ohio wrestling why not give more kids a chance? Why not make it possible for a home grown team to place at state or win it like in other sports? I don't believe this has happened since 1992 in Ohio. There are more 4 timers i believe because of the knowledge of what weight everyone is going unlike the times pre internet and January certification>
I agree with you on the team sport aspects............not so sure on individual sports tho.....but I do see your arguement...... thats why I posted this is to see what everyones opion on this is.......Thanks !
Feb 16, 2010 3:02pm
M

MPhillips

Senior Member

383 posts
Feb 16, 2010 3:18 PM
What open enrollment schools have tuition?
What private schools are tuition free?
Seems there is a difference between open enrollment and Private?
Feb 16, 2010 3:18pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 4:33 PM
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....
Feb 16, 2010 4:33pm
H

hizzmuther

Senior Member

215 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:01 PM
Interestlingly... all of Columbus City Schools take open enrollment students and were more than willing to take SWCS kids. Would you make the city leaguers participate in the same division as Graham? So. yeah... I get that Graham and Eds have some advantages, but how do you address that fairly.

I like the idea of one division, or of adding a fourth division, having a state tournament like we have it now, then taking the top four placers from each division meet at another "state" tournament. There may not be a perfect answer and what we've got is fairly functional.
Feb 16, 2010 5:01pm
P

PetersonMan

Junior Member

11 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:05 PM
I kinda like the system as it is, i mean the good teams will go out of the division to wrestle other good teams, and really the divisions don't mean much, butit gives more chances for people to be state champs. Btw people will transfer anyway if they want easier competition, they could always go to Michigan (jk) :).
Feb 16, 2010 5:05pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:11 PM
PetersonMan wrote: I kinda like the system as it is, i mean the good teams will go out of the division to wrestle other good teams, and really the divisions don't mean much, butit gives more chances for people to be state champs. Btw people will transfer anyway if they want easier competition, they could always go to Michigan (jk) :).
LOL................so true.....
Feb 16, 2010 5:11pm
M

MPhillips

Senior Member

383 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:15 PM
hizzmuther wrote: Interestlingly... all of Columbus City Schools take open enrollment students and were more than willing to take SWCS kids. Would you make the city leaguers participate in the same division as Graham? So. yeah... I get that Graham and Eds have some advantages, but how do you address that fairly.
Thanks!
Feb 16, 2010 5:15pm
T

TigerRaider

Member

48 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:18 PM
Bam175 wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....
Uhhh..... Does Graham not have open enrollment?
Feb 16, 2010 5:18pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:21 PM
TigerRaider wrote:
Bam175 wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
Uhhh.....Graham is not a private school..........its a public one.....
Uhhh..... Does Graham not have open enrollment?
Yes.....just like Columbus Public schools......and most city schools in the state ..............
Feb 16, 2010 5:21pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:22 PM
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
It would restrict them from competing in a larger state tournament with the public schools. Are there not more public school students than private?? I don't know.

The member schools can get rid of the OHSAA any time they want.

I did imply that the OHSAA is about the money.
Feb 16, 2010 5:22pm
B

Bam175

Member

42 posts
Feb 16, 2010 5:28 PM
Con_Alma wrote:
TigerRaider wrote:
Con_Alma wrote: As soon as you restrict a private school from competing in a tournament you will lose them as members fo the OHSAA. This will cost the OHSAA money. That's simply not going to happen.

They have the same ability to establish their own body to regulate their athletics.
How would putting them in the private division restrict them? Thats where they belong anyway! St. Eds vs Graham! I'd rather do this and get rid of OHSAA! I don't believe OHSAA cares whats best for the kids anymore anyway! Like you (almost) said OHSAA is all about the money!
It would restrict them from competing in a larger state tournament with the public schools. Are there not more public school students than private?? I don't know.

The member schools can get rid of the OHSAA any time they want.

I did imply that the OHSAA is about the money.
ALOT more public school students.....I'd say like atleast 100-1......but just a guess....am going to research that tho.....
Feb 16, 2010 5:28pm