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Disgusted with obama administration - Part II

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Disgusted with obama administration - Part II
rrfan's avatar

rrfan

Senior Member

1,922 posts
Feb 18, 2015 2:32 PM
If they want people to trust them have them put their money where their mouth is. Design a coverage that they will go on. Until that happens this is all garbage.
Feb 18, 2015 2:32pm
S

superman

Senior Member

3,582 posts
Feb 18, 2015 3:09 PM
So, we are calling a program successful now because the government threatened people and forced them to sign up?
Look how successful the IRS is! 300 million Americans filled their taxes this year!
Feb 18, 2015 3:09pm
BGFalcons82's avatar

BGFalcons82

Senior Member

2,173 posts
Feb 18, 2015 7:02 PM
For discussion sake, let's say you are right. Nobody was kicked off their healthcare plan and all new signups are brand new people. No rollovers, no medicaid transfers.

Originally, there were 8 million "new" enrollees in the first year. Now, it's 11 million total. Right?

This was sold, with Gruber's help, as intended to cover 40 million++ people. At the declining rate noted above, you will never ever cover 40 million++. Never. It is a colossal failure on this metric. How else do you want to measure "success"?
Feb 18, 2015 7:02pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 18, 2015 7:34 PM
I say this
like_that;1706251 wrote:
The dude straight up threw out lies about obamacare to push his agenda and when this is brought up to Obama supporters, their best attempt at defending him is to bring up some lies from our former president... The same guy that has been out of office for 6 years now.
And it only took you one post to respond with this...
Commander of Awesome;1706339 wrote: What lies are you talking about with Obama and the affordable health care act? The fact that he said if you liked your plan you can keep it? It's been an overwhelming success, what are you complaining about? It's pretty easy to throw out lies a president says (see bush for recent republican doing the same shit).
Thanks for making it easy to prove my point. Maybe you will move on from Bush after year 7.

As for the lies, yes the one you mentioned, and add that fact he rejected the notion that obamacare is a tax. Sprinkle these in, and I have no idea how you can defend him, other than bringing up Bush (which most likely will be the case again):

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/24/three-lies-about-obamacare-jonathan-gruber-accidentally-revealed/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-thanks-to-jonathan-gruber-for-revealing-obamacare-deception/2014/11/17/356514b2-6e72-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html

It's ok Obama lied though, because obamacare is an "overwhelming success" (obama said so himself!!) and Bush lied too!!!
Feb 18, 2015 7:34pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Feb 18, 2015 9:55 PM
BGFalcons82;1706416 wrote: This was sold, with Gruber's help, as intended to cover 40 million++ people. At the declining rate noted above, you will never ever cover 40 million++. Never. It is a colossal failure on this metric. How else do you want to measure "success"?
After two enrollment periods we'l have something like 25% of the uninsureds covered at an average cost of $5000 per year.....An unmitigated disaster if you consider what we've put the industry and insureds through to cover a comparatively tiny number o'f people who already were getting treated, anyway, in the emergency room.
Feb 18, 2015 9:55pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Feb 19, 2015 10:04 AM
like_that;1706425 wrote:I say this


And it only took you one post to respond with this...


Thanks for making it easy to prove my point. Maybe you will move on from Bush after year 7.

As for the lies, yes the one you mentioned, and add that fact he rejected the notion that obamacare is a tax. Sprinkle these in, and I have no idea how you can defend him, other than bringing up Bush (which most likely will be the case again):

http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/24/three-lies-about-obamacare-jonathan-gruber-accidentally-revealed/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-thanks-to-jonathan-gruber-for-revealing-obamacare-deception/2014/11/17/356514b2-6e72-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html

It's ok Obama lied though, because obamacare is an "overwhelming success" (obama said so himself!!) and Bush lied too!!!
I'm only bringing up bush as a recent example of the other side. Not sure why you get so butthurt about it.

As for your first article, here's a good read on what's actually going on with health care premiums:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/obamacare-premiums-2015_n_5691773.html

Did you know I would respond with this too? Let me guess only took me one post?
Feb 19, 2015 10:04am
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 19, 2015 12:46 PM
^^^Huff Po... LOL. ....Lean forward, man !
You can color the results of ACA to justify "success" or failure depending on how you want to define what success is .
you can count on Huff Po to spin everything "Progressive".... I would suggest reading a different line of thought to get a better perspective.
Feb 19, 2015 12:46pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Feb 19, 2015 1:03 PM
Squeezing the providers, with average margins of @3%, was never going to provide significant savings. Spreading costs over a larger risk pool could help, but even if you sign-up all 40M(?) uninsured, how much can that really move the needle for the other 300M people?

Will be interesting to see what happens when the market distortion of the bailout guarantee expires after 2016.
Feb 19, 2015 1:03pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Feb 19, 2015 2:15 PM
HitsRus;1706615 wrote:^^^Huff Po... LOL. ....Lean forward, man !
You can color the results of ACA to justify "success" or failure depending on how you want to define what success is .
you can count on Huff Po to spin everything "Progressive".... I would suggest reading a different line of thought to get a better perspective.
lol, such as the right-wing outlet (The Federalist) that was one of the two links he was responding to?
Feb 19, 2015 2:15pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 19, 2015 3:22 PM
Heretic;1706634 wrote:lol, such as the right-wing outlet (The Federalist) that was one of the two links he was responding to?
His link was not in response to my link. It really doesn't matter what the source is regarding Gruber. The guy said what he said. The source reporting it is not going to change that. I just clicked one of the first links that came up for Gruber.

Anyway in response to COA's link I throw these links:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/04/hhs-finally-admits-obamacare-premiums-are-rising/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/10/23/now-there-can-be-no-doubt-obamacare-will-increase-non-group-premiums-in-nearly-all-states/

Fact of the matter is, calling Obamacare an "overwhelming" success is beyond bold.

As for calling me butthurt for calling you out for using a typical deflection tactic... Sure, whatever lets you sleep at night. Most see through the bullshit though.
Feb 19, 2015 3:22pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Feb 19, 2015 3:55 PM
like_that;1706648 wrote:His link was not in response to my link. It really doesn't matter what the source is regarding Gruber. The guy said what he said. The source reporting it is not going to change that. I just clicked one of the first links that came up for Gruber.

Anyway in response to COA's link I throw these links:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/04/hhs-finally-admits-obamacare-premiums-are-rising/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/10/23/now-there-can-be-no-doubt-obamacare-will-increase-non-group-premiums-in-nearly-all-states/

Fact of the matter is, calling Obamacare an "overwhelming" success is beyond bold.

As for calling me butthurt for calling you out for using a typical deflection tactic... Sure, whatever lets you sleep at night. Most see through the bullshit though.
Yeah you're not talking to an idiot like pick6 here. Let's try and keep this civil. I'll read through your links and respond accordingly.

As for deflection, wasn't my intention and I think that's clear.
Feb 19, 2015 3:55pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Feb 19, 2015 8:10 PM
Commander of Awesome;1706339 wrote:What lies are you talking about with Obama and the affordable health care act? The fact that he said if you liked your plan you can keep it? It's been an overwhelming success, what are you complaining about?
Lawls, lawls, fucking lawls. If you think obamacare is an overwhelming success you are high, naive, or retarded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Feb 19, 2015 8:10pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 19, 2015 9:05 PM
Heretic;1706634 wrote:lol, such as the right-wing outlet (The Federalist) that was one of the two links he was responding to?
Is there something untrue that I said? ....the other link he provided was the WaPo.....not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.
Feb 19, 2015 9:05pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 19, 2015 9:18 PM
iclfan2;1706714 wrote:Lawls, lawls, fucking lawls. If you think obamacare is an overwhelming success you are high, naive, or retarded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...or you are an apologist for the perpetrators of a huge tax foisted upon the middle class.

It takes a lot more than the promoters of this to declare, "It's a success!" for me and a lot of other Americans to buy into that.
They apparently think that since they got away with misrepresenting it in order to sell it the first time, that the public will buy their schtick a second time.
Feb 19, 2015 9:18pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 10:52 PM
superman;1706268 wrote:Oh great, boatshoes is back.
Yeah man. This place is such more interesting when every post is about how Obummer is like totally the worst prez evaaaaa and Obummercare is going to collapse under its own weight, the economic collapse is inevitable, etc. etc.
Feb 19, 2015 10:52pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 11:12 PM
HitsRus;1706269 wrote:A little early to call that...and all of your assumption is predicated on Jeb as the nominee....but I suppose if that is obvious mid to late 2016, we will see a pullback.

Most political pundits are seeing a wide open race, but keep 'hoping'....
Darn it. Wrote up a post and then I deleted it like a dolt. Anyway, the media is calling it a horse race because that is where their bread is buttered. Romney and co. know it is in the bag for Bush. He's got all the money, the establishment neo-cons who are all razzed up over ISIS and of course Rupert Murdoch (who hated Romney but loves Bush).

Walker, as a Midwest Governor who hast taken the dems best shot, is the candidate that I think can win but I thought Rick Perry could beat Obama last time until he went full retard when he left the State of Texas and Romney crushed him with his money. It looks like the same thing will happen to Scott Walker. Already derping on the big stage, balding and Jeb Bush will crush him with his money.

Anybody the Dems put up except Biden (who is totally losing it at this point even beyond old drunk Uncle Joe of yore) will beat Bush.

And no, I don't want Bush to win the Republican nomination because we will still have to listen to conservatives claim that Bush was "No True Conservative" and claim that only if they would have nominated a "True Conservative" they would have won. Just nominate Ted Cruz already so we can put that one to bed.
Feb 19, 2015 11:12pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 11:13 PM
HitsRus;1706722 wrote:Is there something untrue that I said? ....the other link he provided was the WaPo.....not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.
And yet you did not apply this same reasoning with regard to the poster you attacked for citing the HuffingtonPost. Interesting.
Feb 19, 2015 11:13pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 11:19 PM
iclfan2;1706714 wrote:Lawls, lawls, fucking lawls. If you think obamacare is an overwhelming success you are high, naive, or retarded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obamacare is not an "overwhelming success" but it has been successful in what it set out to do which everybody forgets. The purpose of Obamacare was to correct the failure in the insurance marketplace that private, for-profit health insurers would not cover people that had an array of so-called "pre-existing conditions" such as cancer survivors. Now, cancer survivors can always get health insurance in the private, individual market and we have not seen insurance companies go under from insuring these sorts of folks.

In addition, the Obummercare pilot programs have shifted many things like Medicaid to types of managed care instead of fee-for-service and this has had real effect on exploding costs.

And also, more people have insurance than has been the case for years and this will only continue to improve.


But in twenty years when we still have Obamacare the Conservatives who claimed it was an inevitable failure will have forgotten about all that...just like happened with Medicare.
Feb 19, 2015 11:19pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 11:22 PM
gut;1706465 wrote:After two enrollment periods we'l have something like 25% of the uninsureds covered at an average cost of $5000 per year.....An unmitigated disaster if you consider what we've put the industry and insureds through to cover a comparatively tiny number o'f people who already were getting treated, anyway, in the emergency room.
It is always interesting when Republicans love Freeloaders because they have such a deep hate for Obama that they pound the keys about him when they are alone on Valentine's Day. :laugh:
Feb 19, 2015 11:22pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Feb 19, 2015 11:23 PM
BGFalcons82;1706416 wrote:For discussion sake, let's say you are right. Nobody was kicked off their healthcare plan and all new signups are brand new people. No rollovers, no medicaid transfers.

Originally, there were 8 million "new" enrollees in the first year. Now, it's 11 million total. Right?

This was sold, with Gruber's help, as intended to cover 40 million++ people. At the declining rate noted above, you will never ever cover 40 million++. Never. It is a colossal failure on this metric. How else do you want to measure "success"?
The main purpose of Obamacare was to figure out a way to keep a private, for-profit insurance system and make sure that sick people could still get health insurance. This idea was designed by Republicans back when they actually had ideas and it has worked out when it comes to achieving this purpose.
Feb 19, 2015 11:23pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Feb 20, 2015 12:40 AM
BoatShoes;1706759 wrote:It is always interesting when Republicans love Freeloaders because they have such a deep hate for Obama that they pound the keys about him when they are alone on Valentine's Day. :laugh:
I expressed no love for freeloaders...The concept that eludes you is the ROI of what has been accomplished for the turmoil created. Also, in case you don't understand the Obamacare subsidies, it didn't solve the freeloader issue, anyway. But, hey, sucking from the govt tit doesn't make one a freeloader, it makes them a Democrat!

I don't hate Obama, I merely think he's a lousy POTUS, as evidenced by a lengthy track record (or lack thereof). Perhaps one day you'll have the wisdom of age and experience to understand this, but probably not before Obamacare covers smart pills.
Feb 20, 2015 12:40am
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Feb 20, 2015 12:28 PM
HitsRus;1706722 wrote:Is there something untrue that I said? ....the other link he provided was the WaPo.....not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.
Just the complete comedy of a person criticizing another for using a link to a progressive site when certain other posters use links from right wing sites with regularity under the misguided notion that they're spreading truth or whatever they tell themselves.

Sort of this "My side will use anything under the sun, but you guys need to run your sources through us to make sure they're all good and non-biased." kind of foolishness.
Feb 20, 2015 12:28pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 20, 2015 1:00 PM
^^^The Washington Post?
Feb 20, 2015 1:00pm