Azubuike24;1429637 wrote:The anti-Dukefan. Quite a proud reputation there...

Being Dukefan or being Anti-Dukefan. Both might be equally dishonorable.

An NCAA decision..............

The NCAA found no wrongdoing by Duke or former men’s basketball player Lance Thomas in a case involving nearly $100,000 worth of jewelry purchased while Thomas was still in college, reports The News & Observer‘s Laura Keeley.
“The NCAA has found no evidence of a rules violation in this situation based on the information available, and both the NCAA and Duke consider the matter closed,” said a university statement cited by Keeley.

In December 2009, during Thomas’ senior year, he bought $97,800 of custom jewelry from a Manhattan shop. He paid $30,000 that day but never settled the balance. The jeweler brought a lawsuit in January 2012, and the two sides settled their case that September.
Neither Thomas nor the jeweler spoke with the NCAA for its investigation. Keeley reports that it would have been an illegal benefit for Thomas to accept a loan based on projected future athletic earnings.

Thomas apparently received a $70,000 line of credit, raising the question of whether his likely NBA career played an impact in the purchase. But the NCAA couldn’t show that happened in this case.

The Blue Devils went on to win the national title that season.

The NCAA found no wrongdoing by Duke or former men’s basketball player Lance Thomas in a case involving nearly $100,000 worth of jewelry purchased while Thomas was still in college, reports The News & Observer‘s Laura Keeley.
“The NCAA has found no evidence of a rules violation in this situation based on the information available, and both the NCAA and Duke consider the matter closed,” said a university statement cited by Keeley.

In December 2009, during Thomas’ senior year, he bought $97,800 of custom jewelry from a Manhattan shop. He paid $30,000 that day but never settled the balance. The jeweler brought a lawsuit in January 2012, and the two sides settled their case that September.
Neither Thomas nor the jeweler spoke with the NCAA for its investigation. Keeley reports that it would have been an illegal benefit for Thomas to accept a loan based on projected future athletic earnings.

Thomas apparently received a $70,000 line of credit, raising the question of whether his likely NBA career played an impact in the purchase. But the NCAA couldn’t show that happened in this case.

The Blue Devils went on to win the national title that season.

I honestly believe had they spoke with Lance and/or the jeweler they would have found something. But they didn't and nothing was found wrong. Time to move on.

I am overcome by shock over that observation.

I honestly think that if the NCAA had truly wanted to punish UNC for simply making up a fake academic department that consisted of no grades and no real work at all, from which both football and basketball players knowingly benefitted, then they could have. But they didn't. Time to move on.

What this tells us:

1.The NCAA has no real bite.

2. Lance Thomas has zero integrity

3. duke won another championship using an illegal player. That makes two.

Prescott;1437898 wrote:What this tells us:

1.The NCAA has no real bite.

2. Lance Thomas has zero integrity

3. duke won another championship using an illegal player. That makes two.

What it tells us is, you DONT have to talk. The ncaa has no subpoena power, why would you talk.

Midstate01;1437906 wrote:What it tells us is, you DONT have to talk. The ncaa has no subpoena power, why would you talk.

Sometimes, being totally honest is just the right thing to do. Thomas has stated he doesn't think he did anything wrong. If that is the case why not take the tarnish off of the championship trophy and be candid with the NCAA?

Prescott;1438092 wrote:Sometimes, being totally honest is just the right thing to do. Thomas has stated he doesn't think he did anything wrong. If that is the case why not take the tarnish off of the championship trophy and be candid with the NCAA?

Totally honest. They didnt talk to the ncaa. That's why this case never went anywhere. Its smart. Why talk if they cant force you too??

Midstate01;1438135 wrote:Totally honest. They didnt talk to the ncaa. That's why this case never went anywhere. Its smart. Why talk if they cant force you too??

It is smart if there is something to hide.That is ok. It is just another tarnished trophy for duke.

If I were a duke fan I would beg Thomas to tell the NCAA all he knows about the transaction.He doesn't think he did anything wrong. All he has to do is prove that.

I haven't said anything about this because, as a Carolina fan, I'm really in no position to be casting stones after the academic scandal at UNC. Carolina basketball hasn't been affected by that scandal YET, and since the NCAA apparently feels that it was a university academic issue, and not an athletic department issue, the basketball program may go unscathed. Issues like this, Maggette/Piggie, and the Lance Thomas ordeal, simply show that the NCAA is a joke. It appears that they selectively enforce their rules when schools/individuals cooperate, but it's obviously better to just shut your mouth.

I don't want Duke, Carolina, or anyone vacating titles that were won on the court for things that happened off the court. Major D1 athletics is completely corrupt. Some schools break the rules less than others, but at some level, there's dirty recruiting, academic advantages, or monetary advantages being provided everywhere. It's just the nature of the beast because the NCAA has lost control, if it ever had it in the first place.

Where in the hell did Lance Thomas get 30K for a down payment on jewelry? Why did he get a 70K line of credit? Why the hell is the moron spending nearly 100K on jewelry in the first place? Frankly, I don't care. And that's coming from someone that despises Duke, possibly more than anyone that posts on here. I'm not saying that it should be okay to break the rules, or benefit from being an athlete at a major program, but the reality of it is that it DOES happen, and it happens everywhere because the NCAA lets it happen.

Prescott;1438157 wrote:It is smart if there is something to hide.That is ok. It is just another tarnished trophy for duke.

If I were a duke fan I would beg Thomas to tell the NCAA all he knows about the transaction.He doesn't think he did anything wrong. All he has to do is prove that.

Not surprising you chimed in on this thread.

Bottom line is...you can go back to every national title in any sport and if you looked hard enough, interviewed enough people and really WANTED to, could find that eery title is "tarnished."

All this does it provide another example of why the NCAA is a dying breed. If nobody is willing to rat others out, the organization would get nowhere on any matter.

ironman02;1438189 wrote:And that's coming from someone that despises Duke, possibly more than anyone that posts on here.

A quick tally of who has the most posts on this page easily proves that you are wrong, and by a mile. By comparison, you are practically a Cameron Crazy.

And, by the way, why the hell would Lance Thomas even want to publicly drag this situation on any further? I am sure this has been incredibly embarrassing and shameful for him (even if 100% innocent) for the mere fact that, as you say, he attempted to purchase 100 g's worth of bling and brought Duke and, furthermore, his mentor, Coach K, into this circus. I don't blame him for wanting to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and move on. And nobody here, if in the same situation, would have done any differently. Don't lie to yourself.

reclegend22;1438420 wrote:A quick tally of who has the most posts on this page easily proves that you are wrong, and by a mile. By comparison, you are practically a Cameron Crazy.

And, by the way, why the hell would Lance Thomas even want to publicly drag this situation on any further? I am sure this has been incredibly embarrassing and shameful for him (even if 100% innocent) for the mere fact that, as you say, he attempted to purchase 100 g's worth of bling and brought Duke and, furthermore, his mentor, Coach K, into this circus. I don't blame him for wanting to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and move on. And nobody here, if in the same situation, would have done any differently. Don't lie to yourself.

What am I lying to myself about? I basically said Thomas is a dumbass, but I don't care what he did or didn't do.

ironman02;1438428 wrote:What am I lying to myself about? I basically said Thomas is a dumbass, but I don't care what he did or didn't do.

The second part wasn't directed at you. I should have clarified. It was just a general statement in follow up to Ahdonis saying that Thomas needs to come clean and tell all he knows. Which is stupid. Thomas, just as anyone else here would have done, simply wanted to get this issue out of the public eye as soon as possible. I'm sure he's quite embarrassed, even if he didn't do anything wrong.

But let's say Thomas did do something "wrong." At most, it was taking a loan from the jeweler based on projected future earnings. Which has nothing at all to do with Duke and, therefore, Duke should not be punished. I dgaf what the NCAA rules are in that scenario. It's a joke. Neither Duke nor Kentucky nor Memphis nor Kansas nor any other school, can positively account for every activity that their student athletes are taking part in off the court. It's simply not a realistic feat.

This was a much different scenario than, say, an academic institution creating a make-believe degree in order to make things easier for athletes.

reclegend22;1438653 wrote:The second part wasn't directed at you. I should have clarified. It was just a general statement in follow up to Ahdonis saying that Thomas needs to come clean and tell all he knows. Which is stupid. Thomas, just as anyone else here would have done, simply wanted to get this issue out of the public eye as soon as possible. I'm sure he's quite embarrassed, even if he didn't do anything wrong.

But let's say Thomas did do something "wrong." At most, it was taking a loan from the jeweler based on projected future earnings. Which has nothing at all to do with Duke and, therefore, Duke should not be punished. I dgaf what the NCAA rules are in that scenario. It's a joke. Neither Duke nor Kentucky nor Memphis nor Kansas nor any other school, can positively account for every activity that their student athletes are taking part in off the court. It's simply not a realistic feat.

This was a much different scenario than, say, an academic institution creating a make-believe degree in order to make things easier for athletes.

We will agree to disagree. I don't consider acting with integrity as being stupid, in this case or most cases for that matter.

You can spin all you like, but the bottom line is that just as Maggette should have been ruled ineligible so should have Thomas if he received benefits not available to regular students.Agreeing or disagreeing with NCAA rule doesn't matter. It is is the rule.

Calipari and Memphis got zinged for Roses' improprieties even though it was never found that neither Calipari nor the university should have known. The NCAA cited strict liability."Play each player at your own risk". I see no difference in the Maggette or Thomas cases except that duke is duke and k is k.Selective prosecution at its worst.

reclegend22;1438653 wrote:
This was a much different scenario than, say, an academic institution creating a make-believe degree in order to make things easier for athletes.

Yeah, the AFAM department was specifically created for athletes, and no other type of student ever took those classes. Also, no other schools, Duke included, have easy majors where students boost their GPA. Never happens.

In reality, it's really not that different at all though. Carolina athletes took easy classes where they rarely had to show up and do minimal work, which made it easier to stay eligible, and the athletic department supposedly didn't know about it. Thomas and Maggette maintained their eligibility despite blatantly violating NCAA rules about amateurism, but since Duke didn't know about it, they're ok.

The point I was making is that there are shady things going on everywhere. The NCAA knows it, but they turn a blind eye to it. Every once in a while, they crack down to make it appear like they actually care. I should have never even tried to be nice about it. F dook.

ironman02;1438662 wrote:Yeah, the AFAM department was specifically created for athletes, and no other type of student ever took those classes. Also, no other schools, Duke included, have easy majors where students boost their GPA. Never happens.

In reality, it's really not that different at all though. Carolina athletes took easy classes where they rarely had to show up and do minimal work, which made it easier to stay eligible, and the athletic department supposedly didn't know about it. Thomas and Maggette maintained their eligibility despite blatantly violating NCAA rules about amateurism, but since Duke didn't know about it, they're ok.

The point I was making is that there are shady things going on everywhere. The NCAA knows it, but they turn a blind eye to it. Every once in a while, they crack down to make it appear like they actually care. I should have never even tried to be nice about it. F dook.

You don't know what Lance Thomas did or did not do, so saying he "blatantly violated NCAA rules" is completely false. The NCAA has closed the case, however, and that's that. And as such, you are not free to use Lance Thomas as an example of wrongdoing.

Also, there is a major difference, I think, between an "easier" graduation path such as sociology, wherein the course material might be less difficult than in other degrees but where real grades and tests are still given, and a graduation path such as Afro-American studies at UNC, wherein it was discovered that instructors did not teach, grades were changed without authorization, and faculty signatures forged on progress reports.

You don't know what Lance Thomas did or did not do

Yes, we do. Facts have been established.

1.In December 2009 , Lance Thomas, then a senior on duke's men's basketball team, enetered Thomas &Rafaello Jewelry co. and purchasede $97,800.00 worth of jewelry.

2.Thomas put down $30,000 in cash and received $67,800 worth of credit from the jewelry store on his purchase.

3. He(Thomas) was to return in a few weeks and pay off the balance.

4. Thomas did not pay off the balance as was stipulated.

5. In September 2012 Rafaello & Co. Jewelers filed a civil suit against Thomas for the money owed, $67,800.00.

6. Thomas and the jeweler settled the suit in September 2012..

7. Thomas commented publicly about the suit in October.

Asked at New Orleans Hornets media day in October whether he violated NCAA rules, Thomas told the Durham Herald Sun, "No. I don't think so." Thomas then declined to elaborate further, adding only that "everything will unfold once everything is taken care of the right way."

The"RIGHT" way. What a joke

Prescott;1438760 wrote:You don't know what Lance Thomas did or did not do

Yes, we do. Facts have been established.

1.In December 2009 , Lance Thomas, then a senior on duke's men's basketball team, enetered Thomas &Rafaello Jewelry co. and purchasede $97,800.00 worth of jewelry.

2.Thomas put down $30,000 in cash and received $67,800 worth of credit from the jewelry store on his purchase.

3. He(Thomas) was to return in a few weeks and pay off the balance.

4. Thomas did not pay off the balance as was stipulated.

5. In September 2012 Rafaello & Co. Jewelers filed a civil suit against Thomas for the money owed, $67,800.00.

6. Thomas and the jeweler settled the suit in September 2012..

7. Thomas commented publicly about the suit in October.

Asked at New Orleans Hornets media day in October whether he violated NCAA rules, Thomas told the Durham Herald Sun, "No. I don't think so." Thomas then declined to elaborate further, adding only that "everything will unfold once everything is taken care of the right way."

The"RIGHT" way. What a joke

Yes, and I'd love to see Duke fall if they indeed are guilty of some wrongdoing, but all you posted is a timeline of with what we know right now, is a CIVIL MATTER.

We can speculate all day and all night about why Thomas got such a line of credit, and how he was able to settle the suit. Either way, until there is proof that Duke was involved either way, other than the fact that Thomas wore "Duke" on his basketball jersey, this is a non issue.

Did Thomas get the preferential line of credit because he was a Duke player and had a forseeable income playing basketball? Maybe
Did Duke have some indirect involvement (some sort of alumni lineup to take care of stuff like this (we all know this exists at schools)) in the settlement? Maybe

Until there's proof of that...this isn't an NCAA issue.

What I posted was in response to dukefan claiming that "We don't know what Lance did". Clearly, we know what he did. We may not how he did it, but we know he did it.

I agree with everything in your response except that duke is only culpable if they (as a group) knew or should have known what happened. It seems that the NCAA has set a precedent in deciding earlier transgressions.It was never determined that Calipari and Memphis should have known about Rose's fraudulent SAT score, but yet the Tigers were charged with using an ineligible player and forced to vacate 32 victories and lose a Final Four banner.

I even with dukefan in that coaches cannot be babysitters, but that doesn't change the rule.

Prescott;1438760 wrote:You don't know what Lance Thomas did or did not do

Yes, we do. Facts have been established.

1.In December 2009 , Lance Thomas, then a senior on duke's men's basketball team, enetered Thomas &Rafaello Jewelry co. and purchasede $97,800.00 worth of jewelry.

2.Thomas put down $30,000 in cash and received $67,800 worth of credit from the jewelry store on his purchase.

3. He(Thomas) was to return in a few weeks and pay off the balance.

4. Thomas did not pay off the balance as was stipulated.

5. In September 2012 Rafaello & Co. Jewelers filed a civil suit against Thomas for the money owed, $67,800.00.

6. Thomas and the jeweler settled the suit in September 2012..

7. Thomas commented publicly about the suit in October.

Asked at New Orleans Hornets media day in October whether he violated NCAA rules, Thomas told the Durham Herald Sun, "No. I don't think so." Thomas then declined to elaborate further, adding only that "everything will unfold once everything is taken care of the right way."

The"RIGHT" way. What a joke

That proves nothing.

There are one of two ways in which Lance Thomas may have violated the NCAA rules. The first being if the money he made the initial $30,000 down payment with came from a Duke booster, someone else affiliated with the program, or an agent of some sort. The second possible violation being if Lance was given a loan from the jeweler based on projected future earnings as an NBA player as a result of his status as a Duke basketball player.

Neither are based in logic when considering the actual facts surrounding the case.

Lance's mother is a successful plant manager for the Ford Motor Company, and supposedly makes a six-figure-plus salary. His family has money, and it's more than reasonable to assume that Lance could have made that down payment with a combination of his own personal savings accumulated over the years from various resources -- for example, as somebody who participated in 4-H when I was younger, I saved up more than $10,000 from raising and selling animals alone -- and money given to him as gifts by his mother or other relatives. Multiple sources close to the situation have indicated that this is where the money came from.

As for Lance being given the loan based on his status as a Duke player and future NBA selection, that's laughable. He wasn't anywhere near the NBA Draft boards in 2010 and absolutely nobody envisioned him as an NBA player at the time. Bottom line, if Lance Thomas or any other college student walked into the store with $30,000 in cash wanting to buy some expensive jewelry, Rafaello & Co., the jeweler at the center of the case which has a particularly shady history of extending 15-day loans to customers and then filing civil suits against them, is going to extend them a loan, no matter who they are. Even high-profile clientele, such as Gucci Mane and Dez Bryant, who certainly have the money to pay back a loan for a watch or necklace, have defaulted on their loans, which brings into question what type of ethics this particular jewelry establishment might be practicing.

Again, your "facts" prove nothing.

"That proves nothing."

Did not say these facts proved anything. They are , however, facts while your post is mostly conjecture. The funny thing is that Lance Thomas could clear all of this up and take the tarnish that is on duke's trophy, but he won't. It does make one wonder why not. If he isn't DIRTY he would talk.


Multiple sources close to the situation have indicated that this is where the money came from.

Who are these multiple sources? The the Duke Basketball Report? Maybe, straight from Dukie V's mouth. How about from the many duke message boards you frequent? Get serious..............

Prescott;1438888 wrote:"That proves nothing."

Did not say these facts proved anything. They are , however, facts while your post is mostly conjecture. The funny thing is that Lance Thomas could clear all of this up and take the tarnish that is on duke's trophy, but he won't. It does make one wonder why not. If he isn't DIRTY he would talk.

Your interpretation of those facts is also conjecture. So, my initial point that we know nothing remains true. Therefore, going off what we know, it is wrong to say that Lance Thomas participated in any sort of illegal activity that broke NCAA rules. We know nothing that comes close to proving this.

Lance's silence is just as likely a result of simply wanting to get this embarrassing incident -- he tried to purchase 100 grand worth of ice for god's sake, which, even using his mom's money, is a level of flamboyance beyond embrassment and totally irresponsible for somebody who is not a mutli-millionaire -- out of the public eye as soon as possible, and possibly an effect of whatever settlement both sides came to. If Rafaello & Co. wasn't operating on the up-and-up -- this is the same jeweler who reportedly sold the Rolex of a Manhattan lawyer that was in for cleaning to Drake without the lawyer's knowedge, so it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility -- then part of the settlement between Thomas and the establishment might have been Thomas getting out of the payment in return for silence.

And that's my point. We have no way of knowing what actually happened and, since both sides aren't discussing the matter, there is no point in arguing over it. As the situation currently stands, Lance Thomas has done nothing wrong and Duke's title is clean.

The facts are not open to interpretation. He did what he did.You can believe he is embarrassed. I believe he has something to hide, which seems more plausible. Sorry, this title is tarnished by Thomas' actions and his silence.And again, duke gets preferential treatment from the NCAA.