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state finals D2 152

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ state finals D2 152
M

mar1933k

Junior Member

27 posts
Mar 11, 2011 3:14 PM
did anyone else think ian miller got screwed !!
Mar 11, 2011 3:14pm
B

born_to_wrestle

Member

41 posts
Mar 11, 2011 3:51 PM
Not so much screwed because no one really knows what would have happened if the match continued, especially with his injury. But I agree that it was a terrible call. But like my dad always said, "If you want to win son, don't let the ref make the decision."
Mar 11, 2011 3:51pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Mar 11, 2011 10:26 PM
Certainly not screwed and I for one do not think it was a terrible call. I think it was a call that may have come premature, but that's with the luxury of playback.
Mar 11, 2011 10:26pm
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Mar 12, 2011 2:07 AM
bad call???..yes .... premature call??? yes. screwed???? no!!! It was on the spot, the ref cracked under pressure trying to call it right...and with stephens haven that tight bear hug across the mat...he appeared in control. ref just called it to quick
Mar 12, 2011 2:07am
S

squeek

Member

30 posts
Mar 12, 2011 8:36 AM
I watched the video several times and it looked like a good call. Close.... but good.

But to answer your question more directly.
No, you are not alone. There has been plenty of feedback on other sites that share your opinion.
Mar 12, 2011 8:36am
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Mar 12, 2011 9:02 AM
Zero control. Worst call I have seen in my 33 years in the sport (to have this type of call on this stage is ridiculous). The ref anticipated what he thought was going to happen rather than calling what actually happened.
Mar 12, 2011 9:02am
xnds1fan's avatar

xnds1fan

Senior Member

442 posts
Mar 12, 2011 9:06 AM
What happened?
Mar 12, 2011 9:06am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Mar 12, 2011 12:29 PM
It appears as if both officials agreed on the call. The interior official after he made the call asked the exterior and you can see him nod his head and say yes.

On another note that interior official is one of the finest in the State. It might be interesting to hear his explanation.
Mar 12, 2011 12:29pm
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Mar 12, 2011 12:30 PM
If his explanation is "I anticipated what I thought was going to happen and made a premature call" then I will be happy to hear it.
Mar 12, 2011 12:30pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Mar 12, 2011 12:36 PM
Do you think both officials would agree that if the interior ref anticipated what would happen the call was correct and should stand?

I think it's important to know the two officials were from different regions of the State.
Mar 12, 2011 12:36pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Mar 12, 2011 12:49 PM
I have given this match a lot of thought, I watched this match live and when the Ref awarded 2pts, I disagreed, because just as many other's thought control was not established by what most of us coaches see ref's call though out the year. I do however believe that 2pts should have been awarded.

I think the criteria should read that anytime a wrestler is thrown to his back and has to fight off ( not just a roll though) but a pause in action in which wrestler has to fight off his back, 2 points should be awarded. If the wrestler who is thrown to back scramble's out it's 2-1 if wrestler bridges and but reverses hold, it's 2-2 but if pause on back it's 2pts. In this case even if Stephen's had lost control when then went out of bounds, I think it should have been a 2-1 score with Stephen's winning because they were in overtime.

I could not help but notice that every time a wrestler got thrown at state the crowed cheered in some manner. I think if we scored throws this way, wrestler's might risk throwing more and help us gain a greater fan base. I would go as far to awarded the person who throws 1 point even if he is re-rolled to help popularize our sport. Even if it did not help attract more fan's, I think I would help our wrestler's become more competitive internationally. Most wrestler's in the U.S spend most of their careers not learning how to throw,so we don't have a 3 pt move when needed and our defense is lacking because we are not used to defending throw's.
Mar 12, 2011 12:49pm
S

squeek

Member

30 posts
Mar 12, 2011 5:08 PM
ksig489;708880 wrote:Zero control. Worst call I have seen in my 33 years in the sport (to have this type of call on this stage is ridiculous). The ref anticipated what he thought was going to happen rather than calling what actually happened.

Really?
Worst call in 33 years?
Really?

Not even close to the "Worst"....controversial maybe, but nowhere near the worst.

Two stick out in my memoery

#1 The ref not having the brass ones to call Jamison "STUCK" his senior year. (His shoulders had mat burn)
#2 A ref "stalling" a kid out with a 8 point lead. (A shameless disgrace imho)

I am sure that if you think about it objectively you can think of dozens of calls that were far worse and not nearly as subjective.

But,
Always nice to have the "Drama Queen" perspective.

Worst call in 33 years....lol....really?
Mar 12, 2011 5:08pm
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Mar 12, 2011 5:31 PM
Squeek...I am thinking about it objectively. I have no horse in the race. The reason it is the worst call for me is that it came in overtime of a state championship match. Other bad calls are a shame, but typically can be overcome.

A non-call on a pin sucks, but with the lead that kid built...why in the world did he lose that match? By the way, I was standing 15 feet away from that call as we were on deck on the next mat and I do agree that it was an awful call...but the kid still had a chance to win the match.

8 point lead and getting stalled out? Sounds like someone went into "lead protection mode". Maybe they should have just kept scoring and finished the job.

The call in overtime gave NO CHANCE for the wrestlers to overcome the poor officiating. Was there a pause at some point in the action...yes, but not with either wrestler in control or in a dominant position.


So...continue to call me names and attack me because you dont agree with me...thats fine, but try to understand that we dont all share your opinion.
Mar 12, 2011 5:31pm
S

squeek

Member

30 posts
Mar 12, 2011 6:03 PM
ksig489,

So by your rational, it is timing that determines the severity of the worst call that you have witnessed in the last 33 years.
Not...
Obvious referee bias, mis-interpretation, or just flat out missing it!
Just when it happens.....okay.

If you can't "objectively" separate worst call EVER in 33 years... from worst call in OT in the finals.....well all I can sat is ....

You are a bigger Drama Queen than I thought.

You don't have to agree with me about the call, but you don't have to act like the call was so clear cut and only your opinion is right based on your 33 years of wrestling involvement. ( By the way I have 35)
It was a close call.
I agree with the call...You don't!
If it is the "worst" call ever ....I suggest you pay closer attention.
Mar 12, 2011 6:03pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Mar 12, 2011 7:24 PM
ksig489;709387 wrote:...
The call in overtime gave NO CHANCE for the wrestlers to overcome the poor officiating. ....
Both wrestlers had more than 6 minutes of "chances" to keep a potential call from ever being a factor.

The call was unanimous to two State caliber officials from different regions of the State which makes it difficult for me personally to label it as a horrible call.
Mar 12, 2011 7:24pm
O

OUdidntknow

Junior Member

25 posts
Mar 13, 2011 1:43 AM
mar1933k;708025 wrote:did anyone else think ian miller got screwed !!

No, looks like a good call, I honestly can't see any controversy. I have no connection to either, but think the call was good...
Mar 13, 2011 1:43am
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Mar 13, 2011 10:27 AM
Squeek...again, calling me names because you dont agree with my opinion. You cant tell me that I am WRONG in that I think it is the worst call I have seen. I know it is the worst call I have seen. If it isnt the worst call you have seen...then great, you have a different view of what is bad than I do. But to continue to call me names? That is a little ridiculous dont you think?
Mar 13, 2011 10:27am
xnds1fan's avatar

xnds1fan

Senior Member

442 posts
Mar 13, 2011 11:29 AM
I would never call you name ksig because you can hunt me down and beat me up.
Mar 13, 2011 11:29am
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Mar 13, 2011 3:09 PM
The Jamison pin NO CALL had to be the worst...i can agree with that
Mar 13, 2011 3:09pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Mar 14, 2011 7:10 AM
1_beast;709959 wrote:The Jamison pin NO CALL had to be the worst...i can agree with that

That was bad. Really bad.
Mar 14, 2011 7:10am
C

cradle3

Member

37 posts
Mar 14, 2011 11:59 AM
It's by no means the worst call I ever seen. I do think they should've been brought back to the center, but SPG boy was working hard for it & somethimes things go in your favor like that. without a doubt - a controversial call.

The worst ref'd match I've ever seen was Schweda (Ed's) & Mike Smith (Lorain Southview) 160 2000.
Mar 14, 2011 11:59am
D

double arm bars

Senior Member

142 posts
Mar 14, 2011 5:27 PM
Can't remember the year or match but it involved a Solon wrestler either Boross or Welsh vs a Walsh Jesuit wrestler weight class 160 DI mid 90s.
Mar 14, 2011 5:27pm
C

cradle3

Member

37 posts
Mar 15, 2011 8:01 AM
1995 D1 160 Welsh (Solon) & Overholt (Walsh). Pretty sure Overholt was the only undefeated wrestler on that rugged schedule, heading into the finals. Welsh went on to either place 1st or 2nd @ NHSCA Sr's. Overholt cut to 145 & injured his shoulder at the tournament.
Mar 15, 2011 8:01am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Mar 15, 2011 4:27 PM
I didn't have two there, now some of you know I am from Oak Harbor so to remove any bias as I sent the video to 9 very well distinguished officials (multiple state tournaments Fl and Ga as well as National Tournaments). Including a Hall of Fame Official and former board member of the NFHS. Not one of them agreed with the call. Control was not established IMO or in the other officials I shared this with.
Mar 15, 2011 4:27pm