believer;655599 wrote:I agree. The difference here is I was forced by law to participate in the ponzi scheme. Normally I wouldn't recommend it.

Thats what makes it even worse then your typical ponzi scheme.

majorspark;655601 wrote:Thats what makes it even worse then your typical ponzi scheme.

Well if we can't trust the benevolence of Uncle Sugar who can we trust?

Interesting points above, but I didn't see too much about the more insidious thievery going on....the IOU's written by the feds to the Social Security folks as they steal the "trust fund" money to pay for their statism without going to the people and asking for it the old fashioned way...via a tax increase. It's a hidden secret that the fuel for the runaway government spending is a tax that was already instilled by the king of the Progressives, FDR. Now, the Ponzi Scheme is coming home to roost and the theives are like cockroaches running away from the sunlight of truth. Now, the system that WAS funded is now going broke because the foxes were guarding the henhouse. We reap what we sow and for most of us, believer, we will feel the gouging that the theives spawned. Where's my pitchfork....

And the ponzi scheme goes negative cash flow .......... imagine that.

majorspark;655601 wrote:Thats what makes it even worse then your typical ponzi scheme.

And that's why deficit spending to cover operations needs to be made a crime; it will end overnight.

believer;655604 wrote:Well if we can't trust the benevolence of Uncle Sugar who can we trust?

Ourselves.

BGFalcons82;655608 wrote:Interesting points above, but I didn't see too much about the more insidious thievery going on....the IOU's written by the feds to the Social Security folks as they steal the "trust fund" money to pay for their statism without going to the people and asking for it the old fashioned way...via a tax increase. It's a hidden secret that the fuel for the runaway government spending is a tax that was already instilled by the king of the Progressives, FDR. Now, the Ponzi Scheme is coming home to roost and the theives are like cockroaches running away from the sunlight of truth. Now, the system that WAS funded is now going broke because the foxes were guarding the henhouse. We reap what we sow and for most of us, believer, we will feel the gouging that the theives spawned. Where's my pitchfork....

Well said and precisely my point.

majorspark;655624 wrote:Ourselves.

No - You have it all wrong. With SS, Medicare, and now ObamaKare, Uncle Sam will take good care of his children.

majorspark;655624 wrote:Ourselves.

Isn't that what our founders envisioned?

That which makes us different from all the other countries makes us the best. We should endeavor for freedom and self reliance and away from dependence and entitlements. I never see this happening without a fight.

BGFalcons82;655628 wrote:Isn't that what our founders envisioned?

That which makes us different from all the other countries makes us the best. We should endeavor for freedom and self reliance and away from dependence and entitlements. I never see this happening without a fight.

That's correct because the dismantling of these public entitlements would be an admission of federal failure. And there are plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle who don't want to admit that not to mention tens of millions of Americans who are expecting a return on their involuntary federally mandated retirement investments. A political and social nightmare of the worst kind.

You're damned right I expect my money back.

Herein lies the problem. I fully understand and can relate that you want YOUR money back, as would everyone who was forced to pay into this ridiculous entitlement. The problem is, and what will eventually happen is, the younger generation will be paying into the system, and the older generation will be getting substantially less than what they earned. Both younger and older generations are going to have to give, not just one, but both, so sorry, I don't expect you will get "your money back".

Work hard bitches....us boomers are gonna play a ton a golf and smoke big fat Havannas....all off the government teat!!!

sleeper;655664 wrote:Herein lies the problem. I fully understand and can relate that you want YOUR money back, as would everyone who was forced to pay into this ridiculous entitlement. The problem is, and what will eventually happen is, the younger generation will be paying into the system, and the older generation will be getting substantially less than what they earned. Both younger and older generations are going to have to give, not just one, but both, so sorry, I don't expect you will get "your money back".

Yes...SS is a a ridiculous entitlement but it's been thrust upon us. Trust me on this...it's here and it's here to stay in one form or another. It may not be called Social Security 15 or 20 years from now but it will be here nonetheless. That's the problem with entitlements...once they're here they're here to stay.

This is EXACTLY why I and millions of other Americans were so friggin angry with the implementation of ObamaKare. The idiots in DC knew full well that Social Security was in trouble yet forced this new entitlement upon us in the midst of that failure. The fact that ObamaKare passed tells me all I need to know about Social Security.

All of this is just financial hocus pocus and voodoo magic when push comes to shove. Every time we collect a paycheck it's nothing more than placing value and faith in each other. Economics is a bizarre and nebulous activity. The value and faith we place in each other is only valid if we say it is.

There's always plenty of economic voodoo to go around. Social Security is a prime example. Buy hook or crook, national bankruptcy, Chinese generosity, or Obamanomics I still plan to collect my money.

Footwedge;655714 wrote:Work hard bitches....us boomers are gonna play a ton a golf and smoke big fat Havannas....all off the government teat!!!

Because us boomers were hard working bitches for the previous generation of bitches. It's the way of things in these Untied Socialist States of Amerika.

Footwedge;655714 wrote:Work hard bitches....us boomers are gonna play a ton a golf and smoke big fat Havannas....all off the government teat!!!

Because us boomers were hard working bitches for the previous generation of bitches. It's the way of things in these Untied Socialist States of Amerika.

believer;655730 wrote:Yes...SS is a a ridiculous entitlement but it's been thrust upon us. Trust me on this...it's here and it's here to stay in one form or another. It may not be called Social Security 15 or 20 years from now but it will be here nonetheless. That's the problem with entitlements...once they're here they're here to stay.

This is EXACTLY why I and millions of other Americans were so friggin angry with the implementation of ObamaKare. The idiots in DC knew full well that Social Security was in trouble yet forced this new entitlement upon us in the midst of that failure. The fact that ObamaKare passed tells me all I need to know about Social Security.

All of this is just financial hocus pocus and voodoo magic when push comes to shove. Every time we collect a paycheck it's nothing more than placing value and faith in each other. Economics is a bizarre and nebulous activity. The value and faith we place in each other is only valid if we say it is.

There's always plenty of economic voodoo to go around. Social Security is a prime example. Buy hook or crook, national bankruptcy, Chinese generosity, or Obamanomics I still plan to collect my money.



Because us boomers were hard working bitches for the previous generation of bitches. It's the way of things in these Untied Socialist States of Amerika.

Then you all are going to have problems. The unemployment isn't going to get better anytime soon. There aren't going to be enough people working to support those on SS.

tk421;655739 wrote:Then you all are going to have problems. The unemployment isn't going to get better anytime soon. There aren't going to be enough people working to support those on SS.

Simple fix...we'll just spend another $800 billion in Porkulus the Next Generation to stimulate employment. That worked well the first time around.

believer;655748 wrote:Simple fix...we'll just spend another $800 billion INVESTING in the Next Generation to stimulate employment. That worked well the first time around.

Fixed for accuracy. Per President Obama

believer;654942 wrote:
I'll agree that we need to ween ourselves off the SS system, but this should be a gradual adjustment over the next few decades. As this occurs the Feds and state governments should provide tax shelters and incentives for younger generations entering the workforce to encourage private retirement investments and savings to help offset the gradual phasing-out of SS.

They can start by increasing the maximum investment allowed yearly in IRA's and Roth IRA's.

fan_from_texas;655126 wrote:Exactly, exactly, exactly.

What pisses me off is when the Boomers start talking about fiscal prudence now, though by fiscal prudence they mean "Don't touch anything that helps us, like SS, but cut away at things that only help younger people, like Education." Boomers seem intent on screwing everyone else and ruining future generations.

+1

believer;655599 wrote:I agree. The difference here is I was forced by law to participate in the ponzi scheme. Normally I wouldn't recommend it.

Listen folks, I'm opposed to government entitlements for this very reason. If my SS dollars had been applied to my own private savings, investments, or even if I simply chose to blow it out my ass it would have been my choice with my money. Even with my 401K I can option to take out a loan against it if I'm in financial need, etc. But Social Security. Nope...not allowed to touch it until I'm 65 and a half.

Like I've said...it's my money and I expect the Feds to make good....period.

Me too. I want my money that they are promising me (I'm 28) although now it is $0.78 for every dollar I am owed that I will collect by my retirement age.

Sadly, the Boomer generation is leaving up to our generation to fix the problems. They want their money they've invested into SS (understandable); however, they don't seem to care all that much about how we'll collect the money WE'VE been forced to 'invest' into SS when we come of age to collect (mostly because they'll likely be dead and gone).

What a bunch of bullshit.(directed at the bulk of this thread but no one in particular) Let's be real here fellas. SS is not a ponzi scheme as long as evryone gets paid. Unlike a true ponzi scheme, the "early investors" die off eventually, and it rotates thru with every generation paying it forward. What is necessary is that it continue to be funded now that it has been started and ingrained into our society.
Blaming "the boomers" is the most ridiculous statement of all considering that it was started by FDR... raided by LBJ... and further twisted by Nixon, so there is plenty of blpartisan blame to share from the previous generations. All the boomers did was pay their whole working careers, so it really shouldn't be unexpected that they would expect to get their share upon retirement. If you 'end' SS, then you have created the ponzi scheme.....and now what. What are you going to do with all the elderly? Are You willing to take the responsibility, and bring your aged/disabled parents into your home and take care of them financially?

Social Security can be fixed by those that have the will do so, and it's not that hard.
1) raise the retirement age to reflect increasing life expectancies
2) roll back benefits to those who have not contributed any significant amount to the system.
3)find alternate means of helping fund the system...such as a phased in 25 -50 cents tax on gasoline...offset by a slight decrease in the payroll tax.
4) expanded tax advantage/amounts for IRA's and 401(K)'s
5) provide incentives for healthy people of retirement age to continue working and not draw on the system....such as reduced tax rates.

Almost all modern nations have a system/plan to support their aged. This was the one decided a long time ago by this nation. Failure is simply not an option. ... What is necessary is that some people on one side of the aisle need to realize that the current system needs to be fixed and that further entitlement programs need to be scrapped because the first requirement is to provide for those who have paid for and counted on the current entitlement programs.... and for the ones on the other side of the aisle to acknowledge and realioze that Social security in some form or the other needs to continue.

quitcher bitchin' and get to fixin'

HitsRus;657078 wrote: 1) raise the retirement age to reflect increasing life expectancies
2) roll back benefits to those who have not contributed any significant amount to the system.
3)find alternate means of helping fund the system...such as a phased in 25 -50 cents tax on gasoline...offset by a slight decrease in the payroll tax.
4) expanded tax advantage/amounts for IRA's and 401(K)'s
5) provide incentives for healthy people of retirement age to continue working and not draw on the system....such as reduced tax rates.

Oh, great so the boomers and everyone else who has paid in already can have their full benefits, but those of us who are just starting careers get to look forward to lower benefits and higher taxes. Great fix. Sounds fair to me, thanks mom and dad. Bullshit.

Although not actually part of the SS 'trust fund" I'm talking about SSI. Also increasing the length of time for full vestiture. I'm talking about securing the full benefits of those who work a full life. I'm talking about making it easier for young people to acculmulate larger private Individual retirement Accounts.

What makes you think that a system so large and pendulous is not going to be subject to revision and tweaking over a perioid of time????

You are just starting your career?...hell, you got 35 years or more to save/plan for retirement. Your mom and dad have a couple maybe none. Ungrateful little whelp

HitsRus;657109 wrote:Although not actually part of the SS 'trust fund" I'm talking about SSI. Also increasing the length of time for full vestiture. I'm talking about securing the full benefits of those who work a full life. I'm talking about making it easier for young people to acculmulate larger private Individual retirement Accounts.

What makes you think that a system so large and pendulous is not going to be subject to revision and tweaking over a perioid of time????

You are just starting your career?...hell, you got 35 years or more to save/plan for retirement. Your mom and dad have a couple maybe none. Ungrateful little whelp

Uh huh, ungrateful. No one in my generation is qualified to even run for President yet. Not our fault the country is in such a mess.

Look tk...I've worked 30 years and I've seen the 'projection' for when the SS trust fund 'runs out' change three times at least. It's a projection that can change at ANY time dependent on birth rates and the economy. You simply have to do what has to be done to be sure the system is secure. This is of course, the penultimate argument for why we should NOT take on additional entitlement programs, as it takes enough just to keep this one running. The rules change...tax rate change...it has since the beginning. These are the cards grandpa dealt us, and that is the hand we will live or die with.

As a personal aside, Social Security is but a small pillar in my retirement plan. For one, it's not enough. I could survive without it. I'm not a financial wizard, but there are a lot of people out there who have SS alone and they could not. I don't think you would like this country very much if that was taken away from them.

Why do you keep mentioning a trust fund like there is a stash of money just waiting for people to collect? The people you voted for spent the fund, it's not there anymore just a bunch of paper IOUs. Our tax dollars pay for SS. All of our tax dollars, not just the payroll tax. What is so secure about a system that has NO money in it? That is what I resent. The people you and your parents voted for ruined the system. If they had kept their hands off of the money and invested it, I'd have no problem with it. But now, since it's been made clear that boomers are not willing to take reduced benefits, our taxes and benefits will have to be lowered to support you. There's no denying that.

No one in my generation is qualified to even run for President yet. Not our fault the country is in such a mess.

Periods of economic upheaval happen. Comparitively, we've had a long run of relatively good times. Your generation has never known serious recession until now....which means in a figurative sense, you have grown up with a silver spoon in your mouth. Try dealling with inflation of 12- 14% and high unemployment.... then you'll know hard times. I don't think any generation has a magic formula...I'm sure you'll fuck it up too.