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Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Football ▸ Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 21, 2010 5:08 PM
skank;609161 wrote:You post this, even after I posted the fact that in AT LEAST nine other games, where privates didn't play privates....and publics didn't play publics....it was a 8-1 advantage for the privates? Oh, that's right, the parochials won because they worked harder and wanted it more....Or was it that they prayed like one of the other posters said? Either way.

Yes, the parochials tend to do well when they play the publics head to head. But you are proposing that the parochials have this huge advantage over publics based on the fact that privates do well against publics in state championship games head-to-head. Following this logic, the privates have an advantage EVERY TIME they play against a public school...not just in a state championship game. To follow this logic further, it would stand to reason that such an advantage would lead to high number of private vs. private state championship games. After all, the private schools have a great advantage and can beat public schools at a clip of 8-1 as you referenced using the D2 state championship games. So if the privates have this great advantage, and should destroy public schools 8 out of 9 times...why are the numbers so low for private vs. private state championship games? Why are the numbers higher for public vs. public state championship games?

The privates have such an advantage in the lower divisions right? Then why have we only seen an all private final twice in D4 (and we haven't seen one since 1991 in that division)? Why have we only seen an all private final in D5 five times...with the last one being in 1984?

Can you answer those skank?
Dec 21, 2010 5:08pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 21, 2010 5:24 PM
Thinthickbigred;609232 wrote:Wake up public school fans !!!!! We have to start sticking together on this ..We have to ..Changes need made ...I am mad as hell because DSJ beat on a good Shadyside team like that ...In D-6 ..That is a crime to me ..and the catholic schools are beating the crap out of us and laughing it up all the way ...We attack each other all the time ..We have to start sticking together or these bullchit playoffs arent going to mean anything anymore...

Good Shadyside team? Good? Why? Because they pounded on crappy teams all year? They beat 3 teams during the regular season with a winning record. And one of those teams was from out of state. You should know how well those out of state teams prepare you for the playoffs.
Then in the playoffs, they have one tough opponent in Bridgeport (who was another product of beating up crappy teams all year).

Meanwhile, DSJ is playing in the MAC against perennial state powers...which does much more to prepare them for the cakewalk that is the D6 playoffs than playing teams from West Virginia.

So blame the private schools all you want. But if it were me, I'd be more upset with Shadyside's AD for scheduling weak teams that didn't prepare the team for the playoffs.
Dec 21, 2010 5:24pm
T

Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Dec 21, 2010 6:35 PM
Al Bundy;609312 wrote:I went to a public school, and I still feel that good programs win. You program has been better than the Catholic school in your town. If the Catholic school has this huge advantage, why is your program better?

causeCentral didnt want Reno as a coach ..But boy did he show them didnt he ...No we are the exception ..unlike Newark where Newark Catholic dominated and still does in that town and gets the talent from where? .......Delphose where a small catholic school runs everything ... In Kettering little Alter owns D-1 Fairmont ..Youngstown well thats laughable .....Ashtabula St Johns small school ran that big town didnt they ...No most small catholic schools plunder the community in which there are only two schools ..We defeated you ############ and am glad to be the exception ty very much
Dec 21, 2010 6:35pm
T

Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Dec 21, 2010 6:37 PM
sherm03;609441 wrote:Good Shadyside team? Good? Why? Because they pounded on crappy teams all year? They beat 3 teams during the regular season with a winning record. And one of those teams was from out of state. You should know how well those out of state teams prepare you for the playoffs.
Then in the playoffs, they have one tough opponent in Bridgeport (who was another product of beating up crappy teams all year).

Meanwhile, DSJ is playing in the MAC against perennial state powers...which does much more to prepare them for the cakewalk that is the D6 playoffs than playing teams from West Virginia.

So blame the private schools all you want. But if it were me, I'd be more upset with Shadyside's AD for scheduling weak teams that didn't prepare the team for the playoffs.

crappy teams my arse .... Wheeling Central won the state championship ..Bridgeport was unbeaten and many other very fine teams ....forget that MAC I want to play every ^%&%$#@%^ team in that league ..I wish I was AD Id get some of those big boys and show em who runs what
Dec 21, 2010 6:37pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 21, 2010 6:42 PM
Thinthickbigred;609480 wrote:causeCentral didnt want Reno as a coach ..But boy did he show them didnt he ...No we are the exception ..unlike Newark where Newark Catholic dominated and still does in that town and gets the talent from where? .......Delphose where a small catholic school runs everything ... In Kettering little Alter owns D-1 Fairmont ..Youngstown well thats laughable .....Ashtabula St Johns small school ran that big town didnt they ...No most small catholic schools plunder the community in which there are only two schools ..We defeated you ############ and am glad to be the exception ty very much

So let me get this straight...Steubenville is better than SCC because they have a better coach. But in other communities, the privates are better because they "plunder the community?"

I think you're starting to get flustered big guy. And now you're not even waiting a few posts to contradict yourself. Now you're doing it right within the same paragraph...the same, long, run-on paragraph!
Dec 21, 2010 6:42pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 21, 2010 6:44 PM
Thinthickbigred;609483 wrote:crappy teams my arse .... Wheeling Central won the state championship ..Bridgeport was unbeaten and many other very fine teams ....forget that MAC I want to play every ^%&%$#@%^ team in that league ..I wish I was AD Id get some of those big boys and show em who runs what

You want to play every team in the MAC? We know that wouldn't be the case. There's more than 2 Ohio teams in the MAC!
Dec 21, 2010 6:44pm
R

Rocket08

Senior Member

645 posts
Dec 21, 2010 7:09 PM
Thinthickbigred;609483 wrote:crappy teams my arse .... Wheeling Central won the state championship ..

No one on here, and I mean no one has 1 iota of respect for football out of West Virginia

You know how bad your arguments are when you have to reference a team from West Virginia to strengthen your position

BTW, Sherm schooled the living crap out of you
Dec 21, 2010 7:09pm
D

Delphosfan

Member

74 posts
Dec 21, 2010 9:54 PM
Thinthickbigred;609483 wrote:crappy teams my arse .... Wheeling Central won the state championship ..Bridgeport was unbeaten and many other very fine teams ....forget that MAC I want to play every ^%&%$#@%^ team in that league ..I wish I was AD Id get some of those big boys and show em who runs what

Sorry, dude, but Shadysides was one of the physically weakest teams DSJ has played in years. You could see that as soon as they walked on the field. They might have won one game in the MAC but with the physical pounding they would have taken from the likes of DSJ, Marion Local, Coldwater, St. Henry, Minster, Versailles, etc... I don't know if they would have had a team by the end of the season. Football's a different animal in this part of Ohio.

If you want a piece of the MAC, come on over. Play a road game for a change.
Dec 21, 2010 9:54pm
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Havin Fun

Senior Member

336 posts
Dec 21, 2010 10:24 PM
Those who attend private schools have no clue what the public schools have to deal with in regards to handicapped kids. The public school has to take all students. At most private schools, handicapped students need not apply. The only division I think this handicapped issue speaks to is the smaller schools like DV and VI where enrollment is low to begin with.

In the county I live in you can only open enroll in a bordering district, not the entire state.

D-V and DVi should be reserved for public schools only in the playoffs. D-IV and up should be wide open to everyone and let the bets team win, private or public.
Dec 21, 2010 10:24pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 21, 2010 10:48 PM
Havin Fun;609612 wrote:Those who attend private schools have no clue what the public schools have to deal with in regards to handicapped kids. The public school has to take all students. At most private schools, handicapped students need not apply. The only division I think this handicapped issue speaks to is the smaller schools like DV and VI where enrollment is low to begin with.

In the county I live in you can only open enroll in a bordering district, not the entire state.

D-V and DVi should be reserved for public schools only in the playoffs. D-IV and up should be wide open to everyone and let the bets team win, private or public.

Then the county you live in has CHOSEN to take that open enrollment. As pointed out earlier in this thread, every public school in the state of Ohio has the choice to be closed enrollment, open enrollment to bordering districts, or open enrollment to the entire state. I think it was something like over 75% of the schools have chosen the last option.

And as someone asked you before, what exactly constitutes a handicapped kid at the public schools? Are we talking severely mentally or physically handicapped? Or does that 12%-15% also include students with ADD and ADHD? I would almost guess that those students are included in that number...it would be very hard for me to believe that in a school of 200 total students, 30 are severely mentally or physically handicapped. However, it would not be hard to believe that 30 or more students have been diagnosed with some type of learning disability and, therefore, considered "handicapped."

Why are you OK with 2-3 MAC teams winning the state championship every year in D5 and D6, but you're not OK with private schools giving those teams competition?
Dec 21, 2010 10:48pm
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Dec 21, 2010 11:30 PM
sherm03 he just wants his team to have a chance to to make it that far just to get smoked by a MAC team.
Dec 21, 2010 11:30pm
nc52's avatar

nc52

and he comes in the night

419 posts
Dec 21, 2010 11:59 PM
Thinthickbigred;609480 wrote:causeCentral didnt want Reno as a coach ..But boy did he show them didnt he ...No we are the exception ..unlike Newark where Newark Catholic dominated and still does in that town and gets the talent from where? .......Delphose where a small catholic school runs everything ... In Kettering little Alter owns D-1 Fairmont ..Youngstown well thats laughable .....Ashtabula St Johns small school ran that big town didnt they ...No most small catholic schools plunder the community in which there are only two schools ..We defeated you ############ and am glad to be the exception ty very much

why newark catholic gets their talent from blessed sacrament school, and st. francis desales. oh wait maybe that 1 kid from mt.vernon. newark would beat newark catholic every year if they played because their talent pool is 4 times bigger.

newark catholic gets 50 - 60 kids out on their team because we don't have a soccer team,band, or lacrosse team.
Dec 21, 2010 11:59pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 22, 2010 12:45 AM
Let's take a look at some stats regarding the MAC...shall we? For the sake of these stats, I've omitted DSJ (since they are an evil private school).

At least one MAC team has been in the state championship 19 out of the last 23 years.

A MAC school has been in the state championship game 29 times. Of those 29 appearances, the MAC team won the title 19 times. To break it down further, the MAC is 12-5 against public schools and 7-5 against private schools. Now, based on the fact that the MAC has a 70.558% winning percentage against public schools, it's safe to assume that if there were no private schools in D4-D6...the MAC would have won 3-4 of those games that they lost to the private schools if they had to face a public school (I'll round down to 3). Also, since most on here feel that no public schools can beat privates, we will then assume that the MAC schools would have beaten any public school in those games where they beat a private school. I'll do the math for you...that means that the MAC would be 22-7 against all public competition.

So now do you believe me that if you move out the private schools the public MAC schools would basically run the show in D4-D6? 19 state championships in 23 years?!?! The top small private schools (Mooney, Ursuline, DSJ, and Newark Catholic) account for 20 state championships in D4-D6...but that is since 1972.

So like I said...push the private schools out. The MAC will thank you for it!
Dec 22, 2010 12:45am
A

Alma_Parker

Senior Member

103 posts
Dec 22, 2010 6:40 AM
Al Bundy;609312 wrote:I went to a public school, and I still feel that good programs win. You program has been better than the Catholic school in your town. If the Catholic school has this huge advantage, why is your program better?

this will confuse them. now he has to say that the parochial doesn't have an automatic advantage but that he'd still prefer if his program had the path ahead of it cleared of non-publics so that they'd have a better chance of winning state titles. he'll sorta need both sides of the argument. should be fun to watch the answer. the towns where kids from 'catholic school families' who are good football players decide to go to the public high school are a powerful counter to the 'argument' of the juice boxers, but they ignore it.
Dec 22, 2010 6:40am
A

Alma_Parker

Senior Member

103 posts
Dec 22, 2010 6:51 AM
Thinthickbigred;609237 wrote:Well even if his numbers are correct ..they proove the public school point of view ....When only 5 to 10 % of all schools are private ..Look at the numbers they dont add up ...

you kidding, right? where did you do your stats courses? or is it reading comprehension. i hate to be so direct but it feels like you are so sure that you and skank have the answer "we deserve a state championship and it must be the catholics' fault that we're not winning any" that you ignore everything that detracts, including the fact that plenty of other supporters of public school teams aren't interested in your two-track ('real championship' and 'juice box championship') set-up.
Dec 22, 2010 6:51am
A

Alma_Parker

Senior Member

103 posts
Dec 22, 2010 6:58 AM
Thinthickbigred;609480 wrote:causeCentral didnt want Reno as a coach ..But boy did he show them didnt he ...No we are the exception ..unlike Newark where Newark Catholic dominated and still does in that town and gets the talent from where? .......Delphose where a small catholic school runs everything ... In Kettering little Alter owns D-1 Fairmont ..Youngstown well thats laughable .....Ashtabula St Johns small school ran that big town didnt they ...No most small catholic schools plunder the community in which there are only two schools ..We defeated you ############ and am glad to be the exception ty very much

here's the beginnings of an accidental intellectual breakthrough! in between the anit-catholic rant, you can see glimmers that he realizes that it's the program, emanating out from a great coach, that makes the difference. ironton same thing: bob lutz started at ironton st. joe... got attracted to ironton high, presumably by some combo of bigger scope and bigger money. after two great seasons at st. joe ironton has this incredible run and attracts 'catholic school family' kids routinely. (like this year's quarterback who helped them beat D-IV champ hartley once and almost twice). so thinkthick it's great coaches and programs, quite independent of public versus catholic? now you have finally convinced me of something. just tell skank. and stop with the woe is public evil are catholics stuff; it's embarassing.
Dec 22, 2010 6:58am
A

Alma_Parker

Senior Member

103 posts
Dec 22, 2010 6:59 AM
sherm03;609487 wrote:So let me get this straight...Steubenville is better than SCC because they have a better coach. But in other communities, the privates are better because they "plunder the community?"

I think you're starting to get flustered big guy. And now you're not even waiting a few posts to contradict yourself. Now you're doing it right within the same paragraph...the same, long, run-on paragraph!

amen. but let's the split personality part play out a bit. the part that admires reno and suspects that he has something to do with it might win out and defeat the victim personality!
Dec 22, 2010 6:59am
A

Alma_Parker

Senior Member

103 posts
Dec 22, 2010 7:02 AM
indeed. ironton tried for awhile to schedule (much bigger) west virginia schools like huntington for awhile. after going 15-0 against them in the 80s and 90s, they quit that plan; basically no prep for the playoffs in ohio, even if 50-20 wins against teams with good records are fun for a few minutes.
Dec 22, 2010 7:02am
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Dec 22, 2010 7:05 AM
The funny thing is that both Steubenville and Massillon Washington were ousted from the playoffs by public schools. Both programs are not what they used to be. The population in Steubenville is declining, the overall demographics of Stark county are changing. I guess if they figure that if there are no private schools then they will have a better shot at a title. With the reemergence of Buchtel who has Steubenvilles number and the emergence of other programs in D1 such as Toledo Whitmer the chances aren't there.
Dec 22, 2010 7:05am
GoChiefs's avatar

GoChiefs

Resident Maniac

16,754 posts
Dec 22, 2010 8:55 AM
Thinthickbigred;609232 wrote:We have to start sticking together on this ..We have to ..Changes need made ...

No, we don't, and no, they don't. Just because you want to have an easier road to a title, doesn't mean everyone does. If you can't beat the private schools, you have no business winning the State Championship to begin with.
Dec 22, 2010 8:55am
R

Rocket08

Senior Member

645 posts
Dec 22, 2010 10:58 AM
Delphosfan;609589 wrote: Football's a different animal in this part of Ohio.

If you want a piece of the MAC, come on over. Play a road game for a change.

Awesome line
Dec 22, 2010 10:58am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Dec 22, 2010 11:22 AM
sherm03;609710 wrote:Let's take a look at some stats regarding the MAC...shall we? For the sake of these stats, I've omitted DSJ (since they are an evil private school).

At least one MAC team has been in the state championship 19 out of the last 23 years.

A MAC school has been in the state championship game 29 times. Of those 29 appearances, the MAC team won the title 19 times. To break it down further, the MAC is 12-5 against public schools and 7-5 against private schools. Now, based on the fact that the MAC has a 70.558% winning percentage against public schools, it's safe to assume that if there were no private schools in D4-D6...the MAC would have won 3-4 of those games that they lost to the private schools if they had to face a public school (I'll round down to 3). Also, since most on here feel that no public schools can beat privates, we will then assume that the MAC schools would have beaten any public school in those games where they beat a private school. I'll do the math for you...that means that the MAC would be 22-7 against all public competition.

So now do you believe me that if you move out the private schools the public MAC schools would basically run the show in D4-D6? 19 state championships in 23 years?!?! The top small private schools (Mooney, Ursuline, DSJ, and Newark Catholic) account for 20 state championships in D4-D6...but that is since 1972.

So like I said...push the private schools out. The MAC will thank you for it!

No one cares how many state titles the rest of the MAC has won. They are public schools that have very little movement between school districts. They do it the right way. They will continues to win regardless of what happens. That has nothing to do with the issue of private schools and schools that have open enrollment and attract kids from large areas across many counties.
Dec 22, 2010 11:22am
Sykotyk's avatar

Sykotyk

Senior Member

1,155 posts
Dec 22, 2010 11:36 AM
rmolin73;609753 wrote:The funny thing is that both Steubenville and Massillon Washington were ousted from the playoffs by public schools. Both programs are not what they used to be. The population in Steubenville is declining, the overall demographics of Stark county are changing. I guess if they figure that if there are no private schools then they will have a better shot at a title. With the reemergence of Buchtel who has Steubenvilles number and the emergence of other programs in D1 such as Toledo Whitmer the chances aren't there.

Excuse me? Big Red won in 2005 in the first game of the season, the 2005 D-III semifinal, the 2006 opener, 2007 reg. season game, and 2008 reg. season game. The last two years, the game was bumped in favor of the Rally games with Woodland Hills and McKeesport. Which is why Buchtel got to play Wheeling Central Catholic in Wheeling and Pittsburgh Central Catholic in Turtle Creek.
Dec 22, 2010 11:36am
D

Delphosfan

Member

74 posts
Dec 22, 2010 11:42 AM
Havin Fun;609612 wrote:Those who attend private schools have no clue what the public schools have to deal with in regards to handicapped kids. The public school has to take all students. At most private schools, handicapped students need not apply. The only division I think this handicapped issue speaks to is the smaller schools like DV and VI where enrollment is low to begin with.
All students are welcome at DSJ. No, we don't have facilities for severely mentally or physically handicapped students. We pay taxes so there are facilities to care for those students. One of my classmates had cerebral palsy. A well known radio announcer in the Delphos area, who is blind, graduated from DSJ. As for learning disabilities, we've got as many of those as the public school has. Heck, I'd probably have been designated as handicapped as well. :)
Dec 22, 2010 11:42am
H

holdingout

Senior Member

585 posts
Dec 22, 2010 12:41 PM
GoChiefs;609795 wrote:No, we don't, and no, they don't. Just because you want to have an easier road to a title, doesn't mean everyone does. If you can't beat the private schools, you have no business winning the State Championship to begin with.

Amen
Dec 22, 2010 12:41pm