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Individual Sport or Team Sport

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Individual Sport or Team Sport
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bigdogdad

Member

54 posts
Apr 6, 2010 3:39 PM
As I was pondering a scenario if having two great wrestlers that both weighed the same and for various reasons could not switch weight classes. Let's say two heavyweights that each weigh 245-250. These two were good enough they could make it to states. Yet due to the current format only one will ever be able to do so. Of course the answer will be a wrestle off and better man wins. So this goes on throughout the year with each alternating the wins. But remember these two are so good they can finish 1 and 2 in the state. So one ends up on the short end of the stick in the end.

Now there are two questions that popped into my brain. First, is wrestling a team sport, an individual sport, or both? Second, why cannot more than one person, per weight class, per team qualify for state?

Each person wrestles individually, you can enter more than one person in a tournament in the same weight class, and individual awards are given. You progress through the sectional, district, and state individually. The only place I see a team being counted is in points for overall victor. If it is a team sport, then only the top four teams in sectional and district should move on to state, but obviously not the case. Other sports such as track, swimming and diving, gymnastics, and I'm sure some others allow more than one person per event. A weight class is an event.

Just curious as to hear some viewpoints. Maybe I'm unaware that you can have more than one person per weight class. Please enlighten me.
Apr 6, 2010 3:39pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 6, 2010 4:30 PM
Haven't read your post but my opinion... The delicate and amazing balance of both. One of the few sports that pull it off too.
Apr 6, 2010 4:30pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Apr 6, 2010 5:03 PM
IMO it is an individual sport. There is no one else cutting your weight, no one in that circle but you and your opponent, no one to pass it too, no substitutions, etc..it's your problem to deal with for the match. Now of course your progress goes towards your team but at the end of the day its still an individual sport IMO.
Apr 6, 2010 5:03pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 6, 2010 6:29 PM
Fab1b wrote: IMO it is an individual sport. There is no one else cutting your weight, no one in that circle but you and your opponent, no one to pass it too, no substitutions, etc..it's your problem to deal with for the match. Now of course your progress goes towards your team but at the end of the day its still an individual sport IMO.
Is that why they keep team scores at the state tournament??? ;) I kid, I kid. Point noted.
Apr 6, 2010 6:29pm
H

hang_loose

Senior Member

802 posts
Apr 6, 2010 9:11 PM
bigdogdad wrote: As I was pondering a scenario if having two great wrestlers that both weighed the same and for various reasons could not switch weight classes. Let's say two heavyweights that each weigh 245-250. These two were good enough they could make it to states. Yet due to the current format only one will ever be able to do so. Of course the answer will be a wrestle off and better man wins. So this goes on throughout the year with each alternating the wins. But remember these two are so good they can finish 1 and 2 in the state. So one ends up on the short end of the stick in the end.

Now there are two questions that popped into my brain. First, is wrestling a team sport, an individual sport, or both? Second, why cannot more than one person, per weight class, per team qualify for state?

Each person wrestles individually, you can enter more than one person in a tournament in the same weight class, and individual awards are given. You progress through the sectional, district, and state individually. The only place I see a team being counted is in points for overall victor. If it is a team sport, then only the top four teams in sectional and district should move on to state, but obviously not the case. Other sports such as track, swimming and diving, gymnastics, and I'm sure some others allow more than one person per event. A weight class is an event.

Just curious as to hear some viewpoints. Maybe I'm unaware that you can have more than one person per weight class. Please enlighten me.
bigdogdad, Good question! I can see where it would benefit a stacked weight class on your team but with teams like St.Ed and Grahm, that would benefit their whole team. T. Armstrong couldn't make the starting line-up a couple years ago (State Champion year before) because of Martiniz coming in.

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Apr 6, 2010 9:11pm
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hang_loose

Senior Member

802 posts
Apr 6, 2010 9:15 PM
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Apr 6, 2010 9:15pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Apr 6, 2010 9:44 PM
Wrestling is hard in this aspect because in school it is counted as a team sport. Does the team win/lose based on your performance? Sure can, however the team isn't going to get you a scholarship, isn't going to get you to state, isn't going to get you on the podium, YOU are. YOUR hardwork, sweat, blood, tears is all that is left on the mat when it is said and done, not 4 other guys, not 10 other guys, just yours!! Did I want my team to succeed, surely and I did all I could to make that happen but I was first and foremost concerned about my own progress, my own body, my own weight, my opponent, not the other team!
Apr 6, 2010 9:44pm
C

Coach Geisz

Member

80 posts
Apr 6, 2010 10:16 PM
Team Sport! Your post-season location is determined by how your team does over the span of a season. Sectional team seeding uses this criteria. Team scores are kept at most events too. I would say it is a team sport with an individual perspective. Your team must do well in order to provide better opportunities for each individual wrestler to advance etc.
Apr 6, 2010 10:16pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Apr 7, 2010 9:23 AM
While I agree that the individuals aspects to our sport are strong and at times can be overpowering, it's hard to deny the sport's team aspects when you watch a team come together and be better than the sum of its parts. We've all probably either been on teams or coached teams that have gone to a dual or a tourny and one individual gets a big win, and then another, and another. They start to feed of the energy of their teammates and are able to do something they might not be able to do otherwise.

Also, we've all seen the phenomenon of good wrestlers coming in pairs. A team will qualify its 125 and 130-pounders to State. As drill parners and teammates they've pushed eachother over the season and made eachother better. It happens every year. While I agree that no one else goes out there with you, many, many people help prepare you to go out there.

Finally, if you don't think it's a team sport, go over to GOhio or Flo and watch the Wadsworth coaches, teammates and fans reactions after the win at 135 and at 215 at this year's State Tourny.
Apr 7, 2010 9:23am
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Apr 7, 2010 11:11 AM
No one enters the circle with you physically, but you bring your teammates and coaches on the mat with you. All of the practice room and summer work that they did with you is on the mat as you wrestle.

Not only a team sport, but the BEST team sport there is.

Ive played football, baseball, soccer, basketball, and rugby. Ive coached football, wrestling, baseball, and softball.

Nothing compares to the sense of team I had as a wrestler. You go through more with your wrestling teammates than any other sport does. Wrestling practice can be like military training at times when you and your buddies have to suck it up and lean on each other for support just to make it through the day. I never had that in any other sport.
Apr 7, 2010 11:11am
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BSFA

Junior Member

25 posts
Apr 7, 2010 11:49 AM
This is a question I have thought of recently. Thank you for bringing this up. Wrestling is an INDIVIDUAL sport for the wrestlers and a TEAM sport more for the coaches. What I like is the three or atleast the last two responses saying its a team sport are coaches. FAB1b gives a great analogy! All wrestlers want their teammates to win. But, most importantly THEY want to win. Really, don't the team victories only count at Sect./Dist. and States? Not the several other tournaments they do during the season?
Apr 7, 2010 11:49am
P

PetersonMan

Junior Member

11 posts
Apr 7, 2010 12:58 PM
I think individual only cause if the ind. wrestler does poorly, then the other team gets those points. NOw granted the team can make up for the poor performance, but the individual makes the team.
Apr 7, 2010 12:58pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 7, 2010 2:14 PM
ksig489 wrote: No one enters the circle with you physically, but you bring your teammates and coaches on the mat with you. All of the practice room and summer work that they did with you is on the mat as you wrestle.

Not only a team sport, but the BEST team sport there is.

Ive played football, baseball, soccer, basketball, and rugby. Ive coached football, wrestling, baseball, and softball.

Nothing compares to the sense of team I had as a wrestler. You go through more with your wrestling teammates than any other sport does. Wrestling practice can be like military training at times when you and your buddies have to suck it up and lean on each other for support just to make it through the day. I never had that in any other sport.
Do you think some of this is due to the depths one reaches to in order to get through most practices on a diaily basis? I don't remember much of my younger years in terms of what we did in baseball, football, tennis or whatever sport I happened to be playing that day. But I do remember the work we put in as wrestlers and I remember thinking this effing sucks, looking over to my teammates, and their faces saying the same thing I was thinking, but still we were pushing each other. Man those were great times. Great relationships were forged in that room; great memories; great accomplishments made... Good stuff all the way around.
Apr 7, 2010 2:14pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Apr 7, 2010 2:34 PM
BSFA wrote: Really, don't the team victories only count at Sect./Dist. and States?
I think it depends a lot on how good the team is. My team in high school was good, but far from great. My four years there, I have great memories of big dual meet wins, particularly in our league. For us, at the time, a league title was a big deal. It was a goal that we set, and something we achieved as a unit.

We were 3rd in our District and fourth in the State my senior season, and I was much more excited about beating Wadsworth at our league tourny to be co-champions that year.
Apr 7, 2010 2:34pm
falcon81's avatar

falcon81

Banned

571 posts
Apr 7, 2010 3:46 PM
I have also seen an individual running back or quarterback carry a team in football or a amazing Basketball player carry a bad team. Its still a team sport but one individual on a team can dominate a game and influence the team out come just like a great wrestler can create momentum in a dual meet and their intensity in a practice room all week can have a major impact on every wrestlers performance on meet day. I've always said there might not be a "i" in team but there is in "win". Teach each kid that their individual effort can decide the team out come even if everyone else on the team is dogging it. One person can make the entire difference on the outcome. Get the whole team thinking that way your team can win that team title. Wrestling is great because you can still win it all as an individual even if no one else cares.
Apr 7, 2010 3:46pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 7, 2010 5:18 PM
cruiser_96 wrote: ... The delicate and amazing balance of both. One of the few sports that pull it off too.
This is wonderfully worded. I would include track and field as one of the sports that pulls it off.
Apr 7, 2010 5:18pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Apr 7, 2010 5:25 PM
I do agree with the practice sense there is nothing harder than wrestling practice!! I don't remember football/baseball practices but I certainly remember the wrestling practice hell day in and day out. You are correct your team in that practice room is what makes/prepares that individual for battle!
Apr 7, 2010 5:25pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 7, 2010 5:38 PM
Con_Alma wrote:
cruiser_96 wrote: ... The delicate and amazing balance of both. One of the few sports that pull it off too.
This is wonderfully worded. I would include track and field as one of the sports that pulls it off.
That was one I was was thinking of. I don't know enough about golf or tennis to how how things work as far as qualifications and standings go.

On a side note: I do remember when Dublin Jerome started... they had all your basic fall sports that an existing school has. But they won state championships in boys AND girls golf! That's SWEEEEEET!!! It may have been their second year in existence. But still sweet.
Apr 7, 2010 5:38pm
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Coach Geisz

Member

80 posts
Apr 7, 2010 6:35 PM
Everything an individual wrestler does to get better only helps his team get better. Each wrestler should expect his brothers to do the same thus growing the team! Each wrestler must do everything in his power to earn the maximum points for his team. He may also have to do everything in his power to give up the least amount of points for his team. Each wrestler must work hard to help secure a victory for his team.
Apr 7, 2010 6:35pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 7, 2010 8:35 PM
Tell the kids we ask to bump up in key duals it's an individual sport! We match up to win. We compete to win every one of our conference duals.
Apr 7, 2010 8:35pm
B

BSFA

Junior Member

25 posts
Apr 8, 2010 12:09 AM
falcon81 wrote: I have also seen an individual running back or quarterback carry a team in football or a amazing Basketball player carry a bad team. Its still a team sport but one individual on a team can dominate a game and influence the team out come just like a great wrestler can create momentum in a dual meet and their intensity in a practice room all week can have a major impact on every wrestlers performance on meet day.
I believe you just proved that wrestling is an Individual sport. Yes, one athlete can carry a Team. One wrestler however cannot. You put a very good wrestler on a so-so team. And they will lose against a good team. The psychological advantages of that wrestler will help the team. But how much is subject to opinion (but he/she can still only score up to 6pts...never seen a team win 6-5, 6-4 etc).
Con_Alma wrote:
This is wonderfully worded. I would include track and field as one of the sports that pulls it off.
Yes track is very individualized. But, anyone who has watched track meets know that one Individual can participate in several events at the same meet. Therefore, possibly scoring several points for their team (plus dont forget relay teams). Making it less of an Individual sport as wrestling.
Apr 8, 2010 12:09am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 8, 2010 2:01 AM
It's both. Where is that option?
Apr 8, 2010 2:01am
G

girevik

Member

97 posts
Apr 8, 2010 11:00 AM
If we don't move or open enroll my son will be a solid wrestler on a really bad team, IF he keeps wrestling. I will keep taking him to his coach a few days a week so workout partners, conditioning, etc won't really be a problem, my concern is that the schedule they have will not prepare him for the postseason. They have watered it down to the point that they win every dual they have and win or bring home hardware from every tournament they go to. The boys don't know any better and they think they are world beaters, then they score 9 points as a team with 6 wrestlers at districts. Last year it was 10 points with 8 wrestlers.
Apr 8, 2010 11:00am