posted by geeblock

Why should the state government be involved at all? 

Because Republicans are for government staying out of your life, unless it is a social issue they disagree with. 

It's a personal choice that the government has no right to be any where near. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't know man. Some on the right have been saying, no, don't worry, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade.....

Yea, McConnell is definitely going for that. And you know full well the country was setup to have the states  have the majority of their powers, other than what was delegated by the constitution to the US gov. How is the left gonna spin “a decision between a woman and her doctor” vs the last two years of bullshit? 

posted by iclfan2

Yea, McConnell is definitely going for that. And you know full well the country was setup to have the states  have the majority of their powers, other than what was delegated by the constitution to the US gov. How is the left gonna spin “a decision between a woman and her doctor” vs the last two years of bullshit? 

You tell me. Are Republicans going to suddenly allow abortion on the state level and go no I don't want the state government telling me what to do? 

Republicans are funny in that sense. 

I don't like the federal government telling me what to do, but I have no problem with the state government telling me or someone else what to do. 

Ptown don't get it.  Many have a big problem with a big government hundreds of miles away telling them what to do.  Its not that they have no problem with the state government telling them what to do.  Just feel they have a little more power to address government authority at that level.

posted by majorspark

Ptown don't get it.  Many have a big problem with a big government hundreds of miles away telling them what to do.  Its not that they have no problem with the state government telling them what to do.  Just feel they have a little more power to address government authority at that level.

Exactly.  Read the opinion.  It should be and will be in the hands of the people's representatives. 

posted by majorspark

Ptown don't get it.  Many have a big problem with a big government hundreds of miles away telling them what to do.  Its not that they have no problem with the state government telling them what to do.  Just feel they have a little more power to address government authority at that level.

Ah OK. Got it. So it's not the big man, it's the little big man telling me what I can or can't do. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Lol. Ok. So everyone in the Trump White House was a liberal. Got it. 

The leakers were liberals and/or never-Trumpers.  I did not say that everyone in the Trump White House was a liberal.  Read and comprehend, although it is obvious your keyboard is in fast mode today. 

What should we do with the leaker of this opinion, which is really what the discussion should be about. 

posted by QuakerOats

Exactly.  Read the opinion.  It should be and will be in the hands of the people's representatives. 

And that means, in a lot of states, it is outlawed with few if any exceptions and a lot of details that need specified.

Here in Ohio included.

posted by QuakerOats

The leakers were liberals and/or never-Trumpers.  I did not say that everyone in the Trump White House was a liberal.  Read and comprehend, although it is obvious your keyboard is in fast mode today. 

What should we do with the leaker of this opinion, which is really what the discussion should be about. 

And my point is everyone, including Trump himself just calling reporters leaked. 

Aside from virtue signaling, I don't see how anyone supports this.  Abortion is legal in Canada and Mexico, and will remain legal in at least 25 states.  The only abortions this stops are the very young, and very poor.

And now it ramps up the political sideshow, even more, on an issue that distracts from the things that matter to the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Not clear who leaked it and not the first nor last time a document has been leaked. 

Also, sure doesn't ban it, but more and more states, like Ohio will essential ban it with trigger laws.

1. It's obvious that someone on the "left" side inside the SCOTUS leaked it, whether that's a left leaning justice or a left leaning clerk is unknown. But common sense says it was leaked by someone on the left.

2. It is, as far as I can find, the first time a majority/minority opinion on a SCOTUS case, written by one of the justices, was leaked months before the final decision. Sure documents have leaked, but not like this.

3. Your last statement is correct, many many right leaning states will make abortion illegal if this leaked ruling ends up being factual/true.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Maybe. Over 35 states have restrictions in place that would go further if Roe is overturned. 

Also, states like Missouri, Texas, and Oklahoma would punish people even if they go out of state, or if people assisted in going out of state. 

Do people on here even know the bill that is up for debate here in Ohio? 

Again, states are going more and more to banning out right and now comes all the specific questions the right has never really had to answer until now. 

Assuming this holds of course. 

I don't believe that you are right on the Missouri/Texas/Oklahoma ruling. In many states same sex marriage was still illegal when the first few states allowed it. The couples that went to those states to get married didn't get punished when they came back.

Same goes for when Colorado made weed legal, people who drove to Colorado to get high legally didn't get punished when they came back.

I think that's a false narrative to suggest that will happen.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Ah OK. Got it. So it's not the big man, it's the little big man telling me what I can or can't do. 

The Brits opted for the latter as well.

Nine people in robes is not how the matter should be settled.  Its why its the sideshow guts talking about.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

And if it was a conservative clerk?

Way to dodge the rest of the issues. 

I don't care who leaked it, said person should be prosecuted.

posted by gut

Aside from virtue signaling, I don't see how anyone supports this.  Abortion is legal in Canada and Mexico, and will remain legal in at least 25 states.  The only abortions this stops are the very young, and very poor.

And now it ramps up the political sideshow, even more, on an issue that distracts from the things that matter to the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.

Depends on your state. Some may be hundreds or thousands of miles away. But, yeah, if you are young and or poor, you are screwed and may seek unsafe options. 

I also think some of the carve out language will be important. Here in Ohio, the language being debated would make no exceptions and the health of the mother language is vague.

Your last point is interesting as I think it may renergize woman voters. My wife, who doesn't really follow politics, is all reading thr news and following the bills way more closely now. 

So you may find woman suddenly way more interested now that the option may be totally off the table.

posted by geeblock

how is it sudden tho?  Havent liberals always been pro choice?  And again I know plenty of conservatives who are pro choice so it doesnt necessarily make you a "libtard".  It's funny how you have to insult people who disagree with you while at the same time play victim when it happens to you.

I am not supporting what he said, but seriously, it was obvious he was talking about how liberals a week ago couldn't define what a woman was, but today are shouting that women's rights/bodies are being trampled. 

How can it be both, you either know what a woman is or you don't and therefore don't know what their "rights" are.

posted by jmog

I don't believe that you are right on the Missouri/Texas/Oklahoma ruling. In many states same sex marriage was still illegal when the first few states allowed it. The couples that went to those states to get married didn't get punished when they came back.

Same goes for when Colorado made weed legal, people who drove to Colorado to get high legally didn't get punished when they came back.

I think that's a false narrative to suggest that will happen.

Some of the preliminary language in Missouri is what I am referring to. Also, Oklahoma pretty much passed their laws as soon as Texas passed theirs. 

Some of the states also have triggers that would follow the Texas style law is allowed to proceed. 

Again, if this holds, I wouldn't be surprised by any of the language. I don't think it is a false narrative at all.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't know man. Some on the right have been saying, no, don't worry, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade.....

Tell me you aren't serious that you are equating interracial marriage to abortion. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Because Republicans are for government staying out of your life, unless it is a social issue they disagree with. 

It's a personal choice that the government has no right to be any where near. 

If one believes it is a life then it isn't just a personal choice. If one starts with the assumption that it is life, and still a choice, then that's as asinine as saying murder is a personal choice and the government shouldn't get involved.

That's the crux of the whole issue, where does life begin. There are far lefties that would still think killing the baby/fetus would be ok no matter when (even up to a month after birth) but for the most part 95+% of people are against killing the baby once they personally believe life has begun.

Now, when is that is the question. I know what biology says, but politics don't agree with biology in this case.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't know man. Some on the right have been saying, no, don't worry, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade.....

Second response to this same post, the Rs have been trying to overturn RvW since the say after the ruling came out. So this is a rather asinine statement.  

SOME Rs may have said they didn't think it could be done, but most/all elected Rs are pro-life.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You tell me. Are Republicans going to suddenly allow abortion on the state level and go no I don't want the state government telling me what to do? 

Republicans are funny in that sense. 

I don't like the federal government telling me what to do, but I have no problem with the state government telling me or someone else what to do. 

For the most part that's how the Constitution was written, so yeah, most Rs would be ok with the state government telling them what to do as they are typically more of a "constitutionalist".

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Ah OK. Got it. So it's not the big man, it's the little big man telling me what I can or can't do. 

That's kind of how the Constitution was written, so yeah...

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Some of the preliminary language in Missouri is what I am referring to. Also, Oklahoma pretty much passed their laws as soon as Texas passed theirs. 

Some of the states also have triggers that would follow the Texas style law is allowed to proceed. 

Again, if this holds, I wouldn't be surprised by any of the language. I don't think it is a false narrative at all.

Considering it would be unconstitutional it wouldn't go forward. You can not punish someone in your state for a crime committed in another state even if both states consider it a crime. You definitely can't punish someone for something that the other state doesn't deem a crime.

Even the most conservative SCOTUS would knock down any such law that punishes you for something you do in another state.

Come on ptown, you know better.

THis topic is simple, if you want abortions, move to where they will be legal.  DOnt like, dont move there.  States rights is great.

Do most pro-lifers understand that half of all abortions are obtained by women below the federal property level (i.e. really fucking poor) and another 25% are considered low income/poor.  More than two-thirds cannot afford to pay the cost of the abortion.  Blacks and Hispanics are far more likely to get an abortion and represent greatly disproportionate numbers of the total abortions.  The last 5 years have averaged 750k-800k abortions per year in the US.  That’s almost 4 million.  

So what happens to these children going forward if abortion is banned tomorrow?  We are going to have a large growth to the impoverished/unemployed households.  Who’s going to take care of these new lives?