LOCKED: Browns BS Drama Continued...

I guess with the RB thing....the numbers show you can get a great RB in 3rd round just as you can the 1st. QB’s a bigger gap as are other players.

The draft has a good deal of crapshoot to it. Always easy to look and say if you get a do and so type....but you never know. In my head if I think the RB will be a stud but not convinced any QB is going to be a top 10 potential QB....I’d take the RB, but I don’t know the players coming out well enough at all. I’d feel a ton more comfortable paying for a free agent QB than I would drafting one....even Andrew Luck hasn’t really been what many thought....and no one here seems as safe as Luck. Also how they are being developed, coached and the talent around. I’m not overly convinced Jared Goff would be considered a top 15 QB if he were on the Browns.

posted by SportsAndLady

Can’t agree with you there. Todd Gurley, zeke Elliot, fournette..look what they do for their respective offenses. If we took a Zeke instead of Jabril Peppers we would be a lot better off and it’d be well worth the pick. 

Now im not saying take a RB with a top 5,10,15 pick. But if you can get a stud RB in the mid or late first round, I absolutely do it. 

Talk to me when they get into the 2nd contract of their career.  When I draft a 1st round pick, I am looking for a guy that is going to be productive for 8+ years (rookie contract and a contract extension). You don't build around RBs period.  The only RB that relatively worked was AP and he only took the vikes to a few playoff appearances.  Feel free to list them, but I can't think of any other RB on the top of my head in the last 10 years that was drafted and gave his team that much durabality and value well into their 2nd contract.  A first round RB is just not worth it.  There are too many examples of teams investing in their line and/or drafting a RB in the later rounds and it works out well for them.  Hell, there are examples of RBs being UDFA and having great careers.  

As for the guys you listed:

Fournette: Let's slow down crowning this guys as the next elite RB. Crowell has a better average yards per carry than him. Not to mention he isn't even close to being the being the best rookie RB this year.  Kamara and Hunt both are better and both were drafted in the 3rd round.  A MUCH better value than reaching for a RB in the first round.  The jags defense is why they had a successful year, not because of Fournette.  

Zeke:  He is good, but the best ability is availability and Zeke failed miserably at that this year.  Goodell is now jerking off to the thought of being able to suspend him again.  I think from Gordon you're well aware Goodell loves to punish certain players.  I am willing to bet the Cowboys investment in their line will pay off much longer into the future than Zeke.

Gurley:  Beast for sure, but we shall see how he holds up.  Would you rather have Gurley in that draft or take David Johnson (3rd round)/Ajayi (5th round) while using that first round pick on another position?   Give me the latter with one of the two pro bowlers and I can use that first rounder on a position of need. 

Edit:  Also  "if we took a zeke rather than jabrill" by the time our team finally filled enough pieces to be competitive that "zeke" type RB would most likely be slowing down.   It would have been a wasted pick for a first rounder.

This is also Gurley's first yr of top end production. I'll wait to see how his career transpires.

If you're the cowboys, would you rather have Zeke right now or Top 3 CB Jalen Ramsey? Pretty ez choice for me.

posted by Commander of Awesome

This is also Gurley's first yr of top end production. I'll wait to see how his career transpires.

 

If you're the cowboys, would you rather have Zeke right now or Top 3 CB Jalen Ramsey? Pretty ez choice for me.

I said in my post not in the top 15

posted by like_that

Talk to me when they get into the 2nd contract of their career.  When I draft a 1st round pick, I am looking for a guy that is going to be productive for 8+ years (rookie contract and a contract extension). You don't build around RBs period.  The only RB that relatively worked was AP and he only took the vikes to a few playoff appearances.  Feel free to list them, but I can't think of any other RB on the top of my head in the last 10 years that was drafted and gave his team that much durabality and value well into their 2nd contract.  A first round RB is just not worth it.  There are too many examples of teams investing in their line and/or drafting a RB in the later rounds and it works out well for them.  Hell, there are examples of RBs being UDFA and having great careers.  

As for the guys you listed:

Fournette: Let's slow down crowning this guys as the next elite RB. Crowell has a better average yards per carry than him. Not to mention he isn't even close to being the being the best rookie RB this year.  Kamara and Hunt both are better and both were drafted in the 3rd round.  A MUCH better value than reaching for a RB in the first round.  The jags defense is why they had a successful year, not because of Fournette.  

Zeke:  He is good, but the best ability is availability and Zeke failed miserably at that this year.  Goodell is now jerking off to the thought of being able to suspend him again.  I think from Gordon you're well aware Goodell loves to punish certain players.  I am willing to bet the Cowboys investment in their line will pay off much longer into the future than Zeke.

Gurley:  Beast for sure, but we shall see how he holds up.  Would you rather have Gurley in that draft or take David Johnson (3rd round)/Ajayi (5th round) while using that first round pick on another position?   Give me the latter with one of the two pro bowlers and I can use that first rounder on a position of need. 

 

Edit:  Also  "if we took a zeke rather than jabrill" by the time our team finally filled enough pieces to be competitive that "zeke" type RB would most likely be slowing down.   It would have been a wasted pick for a first rounder.

I just listed 3 RBs off the top of my head. It doesn't matter who I listed..the point is, I'd rather have an elite RB over a Jabril Peppers. So no, a 1st round RB pick isn't a bad pick. Sure, you can find a David Johnson in the later rounds, that'd be nice too lol. But if we took a RB that produced like any of those guys you listed in the late first round, I wouldn't QQ and it certainly wouldn't be a wasted pick.

You'd rather have a dime a dozen over Jabrill Peppers is hardly a ringing endoresement. Yeah, blame the FO for picking a shit player, not the position he plays. lolfail S&L

posted by Commander of Awesome

You'd rather have a dime a dozen over Jabrill Peppers is hardly a ringing endoresement. Yeah, blame the FO for picking a shit player, not the position he plays. lolfail S&L

Huh? All I’m saying is I disagree that I wouldn’t draft a RB in the first round. Throw in Njoku if you don’t like the Peppers choice. My point is if you can get a stud RB in the late first round, that’s not a “wasted” pick. 

posted by SportsAndLady

I just listed 3 RBs off the top of my head. It doesn't matter who I listed..the point is, I'd rather have an elite RB over a Jabril Peppers. So no, a 1st round RB pick isn't a bad pick. Sure, you can find a David Johnson in the later rounds, that'd be nice too lol. But if we took a RB that produced like any of those guys you listed in the late first round, I wouldn't QQ and it certainly wouldn't be a wasted pick.

 

It wouldn’t be a wasted pick, but you more than likely can find equal or better value in the later rounds. Give me that and let me use that first round pick on a tougher position to fill with talent.  I think Jabrill and Njoku still have the potential to produce, so in your hypothetical I would take my chances on them (or other non RB players with those picks) over a first round RB that will most likely be slowing down when the Browns finally put enough pieces together. 

posted by like_that

It wouldn’t be a wasted pick, but you more than likely can find equal or better value in the later rounds. Give me that and let me use that first round pick on a tougher position to fill with talent.  I think Jabrill and Njoku still have the potential to produce, so in your hypothetical I would take my chances on them (or other non RB players with those picks) over a first round RB that will most likely be slowing down when the Browns finally put enough pieces together. 

Fair enough.  And I do agree with your 1st sentence. You can find these guys later in the draft. 

"Supposed" asking price for Alex Smith is a 2nd rounder. Do you do it?

posted by BR1986FB

"Supposed" asking price for Alex Smith is a 2nd rounder. Do you do it?

Yes

posted by BR1986FB

"Supposed" asking price for Alex Smith is a 2nd rounder. Do you do it?

I wouldn't but they were willing to give up a 2nd rounder for AJ fucking McCarron... so if thats the offer for Smith they'd be even more dumb not to do it.

posted by Iliketurtles

I wouldn't but they were willing to give up a 2nd rounder for AJ fucking McCarron... so if thats the offer for Smith they'd be even more dumb not to do it.

Funny you mention McCarron. The dumbass (Anthony Lima) on 92.3, who has been advocating grabbing ANY QB (Jacoby Brissett, Brettt Hundley, etc) was trying to justify the Browns moving forward with McCarron as their franchise QB after what happened in last nights National Championship game.

Using the "AJ McCarron can't even beat out Andy Dalton" argument, Lima said "sometimes, even the GOAT college coaches, like Nick Saban, don't even know that their backup is better than their starter because they are too stubborn to bench the starter (Saban obviously wasn't) in favor of the better backup." He claimed McCarron is probably better than Dalton (because one playoff game) and would thrive in Cleveland. The other host, who I think is really good, Ken Carman, just shook his head and laughed at him.

I'd do it for Alex Smith, mainly because it would mean they wouldn't try to over pay for AJ thinking he is their future franchise QB.  If we get Smith and draft a rookie QB to watch him I am fine with that.

posted by Iliketurtles

I wouldn't 

Why? 

posted by BR1986FB

"Supposed" asking price for Alex Smith is a 2nd rounder. Do you do it?

Absolutely not. First why would we give up a 2nd round pick for a guy who will play...6-7 games for us? We better be drafting a QB #1 overall, and I'd be pissed if we didn't play the top the QB on our team, wouldn't you? Esp when we're going to win maybe 6 games.

Second of all, who would we be bidding against that we have to give a 2nd rounder? Nice that the chiefs are ASKING that, but who the fuck is paying that? The KC Chiefs HAVE to cut him due to their cap situation, it would be extremely stupid to give them a 2nd rounder for 1) a guy they have to cut 2) a guy that doesn't have a future with the browns 3) no other team is going to give even close to a 2nd rounder.

If I'm the browns I'd say that's nice, now STFU and take a 6th.

posted by Iliketurtles

I wouldn't but they were willing to give up a 2nd rounder for AJ fucking McCarron... so if thats the offer for Smith they'd be even more dumb not to do it.

2+, and that was Hue Jackson who was willing to do that. And he's a fucking imbecile.

posted by iclfan2

Why?

I feel like a 2nd rounder is too much for him when they can probably get him cheaper. Like COA said are there really going to be that many team bidding for him? Also if KC doesnt cut him this year they certainly aren't resigning him next year. So why give up a 2nd rounder for a guy you can probably sign as a FA. He is 33 years old and I don't see him playing too many more years at the productive levels hes been at. 

Also KC reportedly is asking for a 2nd, that doesnt mean they're going to get a 2nd. Jimmy G was had for a 2nd, why would Alex Smith go for the same?

Well this is interesting: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/08/eliot-wolf-will-interview-with-browns-on-tuesday/