LOCKED: Browns BS Drama Continued...

posted by Commander of Awesome

Was having a discussion with my buddy earlier today about QBs that played well this season and the browns failed to get. Realized we were talking about 3 different guys and didn't realize it at first.

 

Carson Wentz

Jimmy G

Patrick Mahomes

 

SMFH

 

To illustrate S&L's point, get a QB and doresey keeps his job. Do some BS trade for Alex Smith/AJ McCarron and he'll be fired end of 2 seasons.

I don't necessarily agree with that Alex Smith part. If they trade for Smith, he's a short term stop gap and the guy they draft at #1 will likely be starting by week 8. If they get a younger guy like McCarron, we're screwed. Either way, they are going to need to get a veteran in here for the younger guy.

I'm still want to punch a kitten (you should all know I like cats, so I'm joking) every time I thing of them missing out on Jimmy G.

https://www.ndtscouting.com/crabbs-debunking-many-myths-mayfield/

Great article on Baker Mayfield.

I’m not an expert so I don’t really care to give an opinion on who the best QB is. Just hope this regime does their homework (see:job) and picks the right one. Whether that’s Allen or baker or Rosen or darnold, I don’t know and I don’t really care. Just scout these fuckers and get a damn QB so we can stop going 2-14 every year. 

My QB rankings at this time:

Baker Mayfield

Rosen

Darnold

Drew Lock

Mason Rudolph

Lamar Jackson

Josh Allen

Bold is Pro Bowl/Franchise potential

Italicized - Starter potential, but probably outside of top 10 QBs in the league

Rest backups

posted by SportsAndLady

I’m not an expert so I don’t really care to give an opinion on who the best QB is. Just hope this regime does their homework (see:job) and picks the right one. Whether that’s Allen or baker or Rosen or darnold, I don’t know and I don’t really care. Just scout these fuckers and get a damn QB so we can stop going 2-14 every year. 

Pretty much this. Make the right pick. I have no idea who that is. Just make it for once and don’t puss out and trade back. 

Rosen and Darnold just declared for the draft. We have our pick between the top 3, make the right fucking call Dorsey.

I’m not sure who does the prospect rankings on cbssports, but they have the same opinion as me with Lamar and Rudolph as the top 2 QBs.

Still consider Rosen & Darnold the likely "safest" picks among these QB's and even they have their warts. Even with that I'm leary of Darnold's turnover issues and Rosen's injuries.

Dorsey needs to hit a home run with this pick and I'll be surprised if he ties his wagon to higher risk QB's like Mayfield or Allen.

Allen has a very telling stat. In over 600 college pass attempts, his completion percentage is less than 57%, so it looks like there's accuracy issues. Historicially, QB's with similar college stats (600+ att, < 57% comp) were named Joey Harrington, Derek Anderson, etc, etc.

I'm very skeptical that Mayfield will measure 6 feet at the Combine. And although people can try to argue the "Drew Brees/Russell Wilson" argument, those guys were also not taken with the first overall pick in the draft. Wilson was a diamond in the rough and Brees plays much bigger (very long wingspan, like he's 6'5" at his release point) than he is. I'd have no issue taking Mayfield if it were lower in the draft but way too risky to burn the #1 overall on him.

Which puts me in a pickle because I'm sure you guys will say "you don't like any QB's", which in this draft at #1 overall, you're right. lol

Under no circumstance do I want Mayfield. That being said, I reiterate that I'd like to see Dorsey select Barkley at 1, and then draft either Darnold, Allen or Rosen at 4 (in that order). Again, jmo, but since there is no clear cut QB stud in this class, they might as well get the best RB available while rolling the dice with one of these three.

posted by BR1986FB

Still consider Rosen & Darnold the likely "safest" picks among these QB's and even they have their warts. Even with that I'm leary of Darnold's turnover issues and Rosen's injuries.

Dorsey needs to hit a home run with this pick and I'll be surprised if he ties his wagon to higher risk QB's like Mayfield or Allen.

Allen has a very telling stat. In over 600 college pass attempts, his completion percentage is less than 57%, so it looks like there's accuracy issues. Historicially, QB's with similar college stats (600+ att, < 57% comp) were named Joey Harrington, Derek Anderson, etc, etc.

I'm very skeptical that Mayfield will measure 6 feet at the Combine. And although people can try to argue the "Drew Brees/Russell Wilson" argument, those guys were also not taken with the first overall pick in the draft. Wilson was a diamond in the rough and Brees plays much bigger (very long wingspan, like he's 6'5" at his release point) than he is. I'd have no issue taking Mayfield if it were lower in the draft but way too risky to burn the #1 overall on him.

Which puts me in a pickle because I'm sure you guys will say "you don't like any QB's", which in this draft at #1 overall, you're right. lol

 

Brees also has elite accuracy and Russell Wilson has elite scrambling ability. Elite qualities allow them to overcome their stature. Mayfield doesnt have an elite quality and hes short. That's why I'm not high on him. 

I don't trust Allen's accuracy issues at all. Like BR said, Accuracy doesn't usually improve at the NFL level. 

posted by kizer permanente

Brees also has elite accuracy and Russell Wilson has elite scrambling ability. Elite qualities allow them to overcome their stature. Mayfield doesnt have an elite quality and hes short. That's why I'm not high on him. 

Might want to check your stats on this. Comparing apples to apples (college stats), Mayfield's completion %, for his career, was 68.5%, while Brees was 61.1%. I'll give Mayfield his due for that one quality. He is VERY accurate.

posted by BR1986FB

Might want to check your stats on this. Comparing apples to apples (college stats), Mayfield's completion %, for his career, was 68.5%, while Brees was 61.1%. I'll give Mayfield his due for that one quality. He is VERY accurate.

Drew Brees is the most accuarate passer in NFL history. Comparing Mayfield and Brees college stats isn't apples to apples. Brees threw a TON more than Mayfield. When you throw a ton more, your completion percentage is inevitably going to go down. They don't run the same offenses. They don't make identical throws. Completion percentage doesn't mean much comparing the two.

posted by kizer permanente

Comparing Mayfield and Brees college stats isn't apples to apples. 

Umm, yes...it is. When you only have college stats to compare, that's what you compare. Are we supposed to compare Mayfield's professional stats to Brees'?

posted by BR1986FB

Umm, yes...it is. When you only have college stats to compare, that's what you compare. Are we supposed to compare Mayfield's professional stats to Brees'?

Nevermind then, BR. Most people would say its a bit more nuanced than that. I guess you're not one of those people.

posted by kizer permanente

Nevermind then, BR. Most people would say its a bit more nuanced than that. I guess you're not one of those people.

Before the guy has even been drafted, you can't compare one guys pro stats versus another guys non-stats. Mayfield hasn't even played a down in the NFL and you've already jumped to the conclusion that Brees will be more accurate (over their careers) when we don't know that. I doubt Mayfield will even touch the level of success Brees has but you just can't assume that comparing Brees pro numbers versus numbers Mayfield hasn't even started to accumulate.

I have a gut feeling that Rosen is the best pick.  I hate to do this to what seems like a nice kid, but I want him in Cleveland.  

posted by BR1986FB

Before the guy has even been drafted, you can't compare one guys pro stats versus another guys non-stats. Mayfield hasn't even played a down in the NFL and you've already jumped to the conclusion that Brees will be more accurate (over their careers) when we don't know that. I doubt Mayfield will even touch the level of success Brees has but you just can't assume that comparing Brees pro numbers versus numbers Mayfield hasn't even started to accumulate.

You're missing the point. You can't compare completion percentages when one guys throwing 550 passes a year and the other 350.

Did one QB have a different offense in college than the other?  Does throwing downfield more than dink and dunk make understanding the completion percentages differently?  I think it might.

posted by vball10set

Under no circumstance do I want Mayfield. That being said, I reiterate that I'd like to see Dorsey select Barkley at 1, and then draft either Darnold, Allen or Rosen at 4 (in that order). Again, jmo, but since there is no clear cut QB stud in this class, they might as well get the best RB available while rolling the dice with one of these three.