Progressives, part 3...

geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Wed, Jul 13, 2022 10:24 PM
posted by gut

And here's what you can't seem to comprehend no matter how many times it is explained:  The vast majority of laws have winners and losers. Rare exceptions are not an argument for or against.  Emotional appeals aren't particularly useful in the legislative process.

If every anecdotal case of undue hardship torpedoed a law, then you'd be the OC's #2 libertarian anarchist.

I get it, however in this case you could actually allow individual freedom to each person to decide for themselves. This law doesn’t have to exist at all. 


geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Wed, Jul 13, 2022 10:26 PM
posted by superman

At least you're smart enough to laugh at yourself

I was talking about you 


kizer permanente Senior Member
1,309 posts 18 reps Joined Aug 2017
Thu, Jul 14, 2022 1:10 AM

Shocking how this all unfolded. Just shocking. I guess you guys can stop patting each other on the back now. 

superman Senior Member
4,377 posts 71 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Jul 14, 2022 6:55 AM
posted by geeblock

I was talking about you 


No U! 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Jul 14, 2022 9:27 AM
posted by gut

If every anecdotal case of undue hardship torpedoed a law, then you'd be the OC's #2 libertarian anarchist.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 114 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Jul 14, 2022 11:49 PM
posted by geeblock

I get it, however in this case you could actually allow individual freedom to each person to decide for themselves. This law doesn’t have to exist at all.

I agree.  It's unclear to me whether or not this was actually illegal in Ohio.  But that's beside the point.

However, there seems to be broad support for rape/incest exemptions.  And there also seems to be broad support for a 15 week law.  So maybe complain to the people you're voting for instead of excoriating random people on the internet that disagree with you.

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 5:16 AM

Has anyone in Congress presented a bill to codify abortion federally?

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 9:27 AM
posted by gut

I agree.  It's unclear to me whether or not this was actually illegal in Ohio.  But that's beside the point.

However, there seems to be broad support for rape/incest exemptions.  And there also seems to be broad support for a 15 week law.  So maybe complain to the people you're voting for instead of excoriating random people on the internet that disagree with you.

First off, been traveling and holiday for a bit, but did want to say my bad about assuming and the whole LinkedIn post. On a reread looks like I assumed what you were talking about. My bad on that one. 

Also, catching up here, jmog did say many pages ago he is in support of carve outs for exceptions. 


On this post. I think it is open if the 10 year could have gotten the abortion here. Read this morning, from the Dispatch, that doctors think the health and safety of the mother exception may not have flown here in the state of Ohio. The law is pretty murky on that and doctors, facing a penalty and losing their license, may not want to risk being the first to challenge the law. 

You also say there is broad support for exceptions, but not here. The current law in Ohio that was passed in 2019, signed by the Governor and went into effect once Roe went down, says no abortions after 6 weeks only exception being the murky life of the mother. That law is not changing given the makeup of the statehouse and the fact Dewine is likely going to win again in November. 

There are numerous bills in the hopper in the statehouse that also have Republican support and are likely going to pass during the lame duck, including ones that completely ban abortions with the only exception being health of the mother, which again is murky. 

You could say ok, reach out to your state rep and let them know or vote them out. My rep is Kris Jordan who is very very pro life and supports all bans on abortions. My Senator is Andrew Brenner, who is also very pro-life, so they are not rolling back any laws here. They are also locked in to very safe seats thanks to the gerrymandered maps passed, so I highly doubt any law that you support could even sniff the floor of the statehouse here. 


That leaves the federal route right? Well, my new rep is Jim Jordan...so he isn't changing his mind on abortion. The Congress also cannot agree on where the lines are as previous attempts have died in the Senate. 

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 9:29 AM
posted by like_that

Has anyone in Congress presented a bill to codify abortion federally?

Several. The Ds tried after the leak and they died in the Senate like most things. 

A few other bills have not made it far either due no one can agree on where to draw the line now, which is a big problem for the Ds. 

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 9:42 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

Several. The Ds tried after the leak and they died in the Senate like most things. 

A few other bills have not made it far either due no one can agree on where to draw the line now, which is a big problem for the Ds. 

The problem is that most people on the left do not even realize how far left many of them have gone on this issue (the far right as well).


The left always points to Europe as the great bastion of hope yet nearly every country in Europe had far stricter abortion laws than the US before RvW was overturned.


If the Rs proposed European rules, which for most countries is 15 weeks and nothing past that unless there is literally a mother dying, the Ds would shoot it down in 1 second as "Draconian" and "Dark ages".


Too many Ds want abortions up to and even after birth, which is rather insane, quite frankly as insane as making a 10 year old rape victim give birth. They don't see that as a problem though, vast majority of Rs do see the 10 year old rape victim as a problem and I can bet the definition of "health of mother" gets really clear due to this case.

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 9:49 AM
posted by jmog

The problem is that most people on the left do not even realize how far left many of them have gone on this issue (the far right as well).


The left always points to Europe as the great bastion of hope yet nearly every country in Europe had far stricter abortion laws than the US before RvW was overturned.


If the Rs proposed European rules, which for most countries is 15 weeks and nothing past that unless there is literally a mother dying, the Ds would shoot it down in 1 second as "Draconian" and "Dark ages".


Too many Ds want abortions up to and even after birth, which is rather insane, quite frankly as insane as making a 10 year old rape victim give birth. They don't see that as a problem though, vast majority of Rs do see the 10 year old rape victim as a problem and I can bet the definition of "health of mother" gets really clear due to this case.

That may be true of the Ds, but you are completely overlooking my post about the state of Ohio. 

6 weeks is the law and not changing and an out right ban is very likely. 

The Rs are not going to propose 15 weeks because they believe in 6 weeks or out right bans. 

It seems the vast majority of people believe abortion should be allowed but limited,but our elected representatives think it should be allowed with zero restrictions or not allowed at all with only a narrow restriction.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 10:33 AM

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

Heretic Son of the Sun
20,517 posts 201 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 11:02 AM
posted by iclfan2

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

Probably both.

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 2:04 PM
posted by iclfan2

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 5:51 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…


kizer permanente Senior Member
1,309 posts 18 reps Joined Aug 2017
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 6:05 PM
posted by jmog

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…


Where have you ever heard that? 


like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 6:20 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

Dems have the majority. They can pass whatever they want as long as they agree to it as a party. Let’s not act like they haven’t changed the rules to the game before (looking at the filibuster). Quit trying to blame it on one party from a vacuumed lenses of one state.

A gun control bill just passed, because you had handful of spineless republicans caving in.  I think if threw out 15 weeks you would have enough republicans voting for it.  The reality is the Dems don’t want to present anything that would seriously be considered, because they are desperate to drum up votes. You know it, but you don’t want to admit it.

 Face it moderate ptown, neither party gives a fuck about your concerns.


Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 6:22 PM
posted by jmog

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…


What is this all about?


gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 114 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 6:31 PM

The Dems have had multiple opportunities to codify RvW on the federal level.  The reason they didn't is because they've cajoled women for 50 years to vote for them or risk losing the right, all the while passing up every opportunity when they controlled all 3 branches to codify it.

Now that the SCOTUS has overturned RvW perhaps the Dems will cease with the empty fearmongering and actually do something for a change.  Except they lose control of Congress in 6 months, and then possibly lose the WH for at least 4 years.

And it remains to be seen if the Dems could actually agree on a law even if they had control.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 114 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Jul 15, 2022 6:38 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

Not sure what you find odd about it.  Polling shows only @12% of voters favor a heartbeat ban.  While some 3/4 of the country favor bans between 15-22 weeks.

Ohio's law is messed up.  That's pretty surprising for a purple state that's not usually into crazy business.

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