Progressives, part 3...

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 8:02 AM
posted by Fletch

No magic number?  Yea there is, the problem is that politicians are too scared to tell you what they think.  


The fairest way to tax is to use a tax plan based on consumption.  


That's your opinion - the fairest way to tax that is. But that is not a fair way to do it in many people's eyes. A tough issue. 

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 8:30 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

The concept is stupid as contracts are voluntary agreements.


Yeah, It is in one sense, as you agree to be part of a civil society and a government. Therefore, as you agree to that contract and you agree to the laws that are established. You can always work to change those laws and the form of government, but you agree as a member of the society to that contract. 

You are a resident of a state and a citizen of the US. If you do not want to agree to that contract, fine, give up your citizenship. 

It seems like you just think there should be no government and every man for themselves. 

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 9:32 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

It seems like you just think there should be no government and every man for themselves. 


That's the ideal, I can't get there as a practical matter. I could live with what the country was supposed to be as founded. A federal government whose sole legal functions are specifically spelled out and cannot be expanded by anything but the amendment process. In short, to 1) protect my person, and 2) to protect my property (including from them).

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 9:41 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

That's the ideal, I can't get there as a practical matter. I could live with what the country was supposed to be as founded. A federal government whose sole legal functions are specifically spelled out and cannot be expanded by anything but the amendment process. In short, to 1) protect my person, and 2) to protect my property (including from them).

That is not how the country was founded. The whole crux of the Jefferson v. Hamilton/ Madison debate is the power of the government through the Amendment and law process. You are just taking the Jefferson point of view. My whole point is there is a whole other side of the argument that has been around since the founding of the country.  It seems like most people forget how divided our founding was and that the founders had deep disagreements on the nature of government and how it would function. 

You also acknowledge the Amendment process...which goes back to how this all started as Income Taxes are part of the Amendment process, Amendment #16.

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 9:50 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

That is not how the country was founded. The whole crux of the Jefferson v. Hamilton/ Madison debate is the power of the government through the Amendment and law process. You are just taking the Jefferson point of view. My whole point is there is a whole other side of the argument that has been around since the founding of the country.  It seems like most people forget how divided our founding was and that the founders had deep disagreements on the nature of government and how it would function. 

You also acknowledge the Amendment process...which goes back to how this all started as Income Taxes are part of the Amendment process, Amendment #16.

It's settled, but ignored, that the government can simply pass laws the grant them powers not specifically enumerated in the constitution. Again, they are not allowed to do so, but can due to force.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 10:08 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

That's your opinion - the fairest way to tax that is. But that is not a fair way to do it in many people's eyes. A tough issue. 

Thats not my opinion....its the opinion of many.  Its a very objective way to tax....and likely the fairest.  If you spend a million dollars you pay the same % of tax as if you spent $1.



Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 10:15 AM
posted by Spock

Thats not my opinion....its the opinion of many.  Its a very objective way to tax....and likely the fairest.  If you spend a million dollars you pay the same % of tax as if you spent $1.



The point is that it's objective in your eyes, but others would disagree.  Lower income earners pay a higher tax rate on the same basic necessities.  


There may be no ideal (i.e. fair) way to tax a population.  I don't love paying my taxes.  But I also recognize that we are taxed at a lower rate than almost anywhere else I'd want to live.  

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 11:02 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The point is that it's objective in your eyes, but others would disagree.  Lower income earners pay a higher tax rate on the same basic necessities.  


There may be no ideal (i.e. fair) way to tax a population.  I don't love paying my taxes.  But I also recognize that we are taxed at a lower rate than almost anywhere else I'd want to live.  

I don't believe "fair" exists, except as a matter of opinion. Is it fair that nearly half the population pay zero income tax? Some people would actually say yes to that, which is amazing to me.

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 11:20 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

I don't believe "fair" exists, except as a matter of opinion. Is it fair that nearly half the population pay zero income tax? Some people would actually say yes to that, which is amazing to me.

You're right about "fair".  Like we've always been told, "life's not fair".  Whatever that means, I believe it.  Striving for the best collective solution is okay, so long as we know nothing will satisfy everyone's wants and needs.  


Still won't forget that you badmouthed Don Vito Corleone.  That shit'll get you whacked if you're not careful.  You'll find yourself alongside Luca Brasi.  

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 11:23 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie



Still won't forget that you badmouthed Don Vito Corleone.  That shit'll get you whacked if you're not careful.  You'll find yourself alongside Luca Brasi. 


I can handle things. I’m smart. Not like everybody says, like dumb. I’m smart and I want respect!


Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 2:24 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

No, I thought you said you're alright Spider.  I thought I heard someone say they're alright Spider. No I thought I heard you say I'm alright Spider 

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 2:45 PM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Take a look at the countries that have zero or very low income taxes. The list is not impressive to say the least. The countries that would offer a quality of life similar to the US - almost without exception - have a higher tax rate than we do. That's a pickle for the "tax is stealing" crowd. 

....they may have a higher rate .......they may have a lower tax base

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 3:48 PM
posted by QuakerOats

....they may have a higher rate .......they may have a lower tax base

The point is that there are no good alternatives if you don't like the taxes we pay here. 

Automatik Senior Member
15,737 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 3:53 PM

This thread has been at the top of the list for 2-3 days straight. Are you all unemployed?

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 4:31 PM
posted by Automatik

This thread has been at the top of the list for 2-3 days straight. Are you all unemployed?

Yes we are. 

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 6:30 PM

sportchampps Senior Member
7,527 posts 36 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 7:41 PM

Is calling it the South African variant and UK variant racist like calling it the China virus asking for a friend

Fletch Member
0 posts 3 reps Joined Nov 2020
Fri, Feb 5, 2021 8:34 PM
posted by sportchampps

Is calling it the South African variant and UK variant racist like calling it the China virus asking for a friend

Solid posts


CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil
7,259 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Feb 8, 2021 4:34 AM

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Feb 8, 2021 9:27 AM
posted by CenterBHSFan

LOL

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