Progressives, part 3...

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:34 AM

But I'm glad you're cool with the fedgov taking my money to bomb folks overseas. Democracy is great.

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:41 AM
posted by justincredible

But I'm glad you're cool with the fedgov taking my money to bomb folks overseas. Democracy is great.

Well, to be fair to Ptown it depends on who is doing the bombing to determine whether he is cool with it or not.   

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:42 AM
posted by justincredible

Giving the fedgov direct access to our paychecks was the dumbest fucking idea of the 20th century.

LOL. Ok...that is a stretch.  I can think of four that were dumber off the top of my head...

1. The idea of the Soviet Union.

2. The idea that the UK and Europe could contain Nazi Germany. 

3. Prohibition 

4. The idea that Europe could stave off war in the early 20th century by creating massive interlocking alliances. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:44 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

LOL. Ok...that is a stretch.  I can think of four that were dumber off the top of my head...

1. The idea of the Soviet Union.

2. The idea that the UK and Europe could contain Nazi Germany. 

3. Prohibition 

4. The idea that Europe could stave off war in the early 20th century by creating massive interlocking alliances. 

I was speaking directly in the US. Prohibition is stupid, but at least it was overturned.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:48 AM

And while we're at it, fuck Milton Friedman for the idea of payroll deductions.

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 35 reps Joined Oct 2010
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:50 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

I believe the government has no more moral authority to take my property than a criminal putting a gun in my ribs. They both get away with it due to power, not for any valid reason.


BTW, half of us don't pay taxes. Sounds fair on that basis as well.

Everyone pays tax somewhere.  


The criminal doesn't give anything in return. You get something for your taxes. You may not like the bargain and so you are free to go elsewhere. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:52 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Everyone pays tax somewhere.  


The criminal doesn't give anything in return. You get something for your taxes. You may not like the bargain and so you are free to go elsewhere. 

We'll just move to Somalia, amirite?

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 9:56 AM

Oh, wait. You can't move away, because YOU'LL STILL OWE FEDERAL TAXES.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:01 AM

Anyway, I'm done complaining. Long live the empire.

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:21 AM
posted by justincredible

Giving the fedgov direct access to our paychecks was the dumbest fucking idea of the 20th century.

Exactly, if income tax had stayed how it was and you had to send in the money...within a decade our government would be MUCH smaller as the people would revolt.


80% of the people don't even pay attention to how much of their check is gone to taxes.

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:25 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

I love you tax is theft people. You act like the 16th Amendment does not exist or that the fact that taxation was included in the Constitution does not exist. The Government does have the authority per the Constitution. 

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Again, you skip the important step that the Founders had no right to write and enforce a damn thing without the consent of the individual, NOT "the people". Why would Jefferson, etc. have any say over my life then, much less more than two centuries later? The correct response is violence or the threat of same.

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:31 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Everyone pays tax somewhere.  


The criminal doesn't give anything in return. You get something for your taxes. You may not like the bargain and so you are free to go elsewhere. 

The first response is simply not true.


As to the second, it's no different than saying my business paying protection money to the mob is a bargain I can take, or I can move, or I can risk my business being burned to the ground, either with me in it or not.

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:40 AM
posted by justincredible

I was speaking directly in the US. Prohibition is stupid, but at least it was overturned.

Sure, I'll add in Vietnam then as another massive dumb idea. 

I'll even say the US decision to not join the League of Nations was a worse idea as well. But, that is just my reading of modern US history. 


8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:41 AM
posted by jmog

Exactly, if income tax had stayed how it was and you had to send in the money...within a decade our government would be MUCH smaller as the people would revolt.


80% of the people don't even pay attention to how much of their check is gone to taxes.

I doubt it because I am pretty sure the U.S. would have instituted the federal income tax again during World War I in order to pay for the war or even during the Great Depression or World War II. 

It certainty would have been used in the post war period. 

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:44 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

Again, you skip the important step that the Founders had no right to write and enforce a damn thing without the consent of the individual, NOT "the people". Why would Jefferson, etc. have any say over my life then, much less more than two centuries later? The correct response is violence or the threat of same.

If that was the case, there would not have been an Amendment process. The founders were just as divided on those issues as we are now. Hamilton's views were as vastly different than Jefferson's on this very issue on rights and consent. 

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:50 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

If that was the case, there would not have been an Amendment process. The founders were just as divided on those issues as we are now. Hamilton's views were as vastly different than Jefferson's on this very issue on rights and consent. 

You can't get past the notion that someone has some sort of divine right to rule. Your argument is that the constitution is valid because it's the constitution. Your argument is flawed.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:50 AM

Ptown trying way to hard to defend the theft that we know of as federal taxes

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:57 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

You can't get past the notion that someone has some sort of divine right to rule. Your argument is that the constitution is valid because it's the constitution. Your argument is flawed.

I think that is debatable when that applies to taxes. Again, this debate goes back to Jefferson v. Hamilton. 


justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 246 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 11:00 AM

Why pay taxes when the govt can just print 6 trillion dollars in a year? Until we fix our money none of this matters anyway.

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Feb 4, 2021 11:06 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

I doubt it because I am pretty sure the U.S. would have instituted the federal income tax again during World War I in order to pay for the war or even during the Great Depression or World War II. 

It certainty would have been used in the post war period. 

I didn't say there wouldn't be a federal income tax, I should the people would revolt and only vote in those that actually want small government if they actually paid attention to how much of their checks go to the government.

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