Progressives, part 3...

posted by O-Trap

Not much, if any.

 

 

How? You bring more Chinese and Europeans in and it spreads? Fauci and other doctors agree. You’re usually even keeled so I’d like to hear your reasoning on this.

It would be so nice if Trump could just drop all the bullshit just for the remainder of this thing. I’d like to be able to sit and listen to our president speak about what is going on in our country but all he does is speak jibberish for 5 minutes then give us 1 bit of info we need. Rinse and repeat. I just can’t  listen for more than 10 minutes. The guy is just incapable of communicating like a normal person. Very irritating during this whole ordeal. 

posted by iclfan2

How? You bring more Chinese and Europeans in and it spreads? Fauci and other doctors agree. You’re usually even keeled so I’d like to hear your reasoning on this.

Well, the majority of travel to and from China is by US citizens and residents, so we didn't really stop the movement.

Just as well, we get more tourism from Japan and the UK than we do China, and I'd wager those places already had cases as well.

All in, maybe we stopped a small percentage of possible carriers.

The idea it worked notably well only holds up as long as we believe it was contained in China at the time, and even then, we're only looking at maybe 35-40% of the possible carriers prevented entrance.

When you then include the visitors from Japan and the UK, you're now looking at about 35-40% (percentage of normal visitors from China) of maybe 20-25% (the percentage of visitors from the top three nations, all of which likely had carriers by that points).

And truthfully, that doesn't even take into account any carriers who were already here, making the impact on the current situation even smaller.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

 

Hail, Saint Trump. Bow down to his wisdom and leadership! 

The irony here is pretty thick.

posted by O-Trap

And truthfully, that doesn't even take into account any carriers who were already here, making the impact on the current situation even smaller.

If even a few dozen infected people were kept out, it could make a big difference in where we would otherwise be currently.

It obviously didn't stop the virus from coming here, but delay is the name of the game.

posted by gut

If even a few dozen infected people were kept out, it could make a big difference in where we would otherwise be currently.

It obviously didn't stop the virus from coming here, but delay is the name of the game.

If it were just that aspect, perhaps.

Given the sum total, though, the holes add up more than the prevention does.  Considerably.

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  

Do they not know that net worth is the not the same as how much cash they actually have, or are they being dishonest for the clout?

posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

 

"Cool experiment. After doing it, how much did you donate?"

"Nothing"

posted by justincredible

Do they not know that net worth is the not the same as how much cash they actually have, or are they being dishonest for the clout?

 

No they don't.  I am not taking credit for this analogy since i saw it in the comments, but these people literally believe all billionaires are like uncle scrooge with a secret vault of cash and gold coins. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

"Cool experiment. After doing it, how much did you donate?"

 

"Nothing"

We all should just ridicule everyone at grocery stores when they decide to donate $1 for whatever is the charitable cause of the week.

posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

 

Yeah, it is possibly the most stupid argument of all time. Who gives a fuck what percent of a person's worth $25M is? It's still $25M and that's a hell of a lot money AND definitely a hell of a lot more than all the "he only gave a tiny percent!!!!" bitches could ever donate if they lived 100 lifetimes. Just an inferiority complex: "They're way more successful, famous and popular than I am...BUT I'M CLAIMING MORAL SUPERIORITY!!!!!"

posted by O-Trap

Not much, if any.

 

 

oh, ok

posted by O-Trap

Well, the majority of travel to and from China is by US citizens and residents, so we didn't really stop the movement.

Just as well, we get more tourism from Japan and the UK than we do China, and I'd wager those places already had cases as well.

All in, maybe we stopped a small percentage of possible carriers.

The idea it worked notably well only holds up as long as we believe it was contained in China at the time, and even then, we're only looking at maybe 35-40% of the possible carriers prevented entrance.

When you then include the visitors from Japan and the UK, you're now looking at about 35-40% (percentage of normal visitors from China) of maybe 20-25% (the percentage of visitors from the top three nations, all of which likely had carriers by that points).

And truthfully, that doesn't even take into account any carriers who were already here, making the impact on the current situation even smaller.

I'd say that any help that could/should have done probably was mostly nullified by our overall stupidity, making it pretty much a non-player in the grand scheme of things. Taking steps to keep out that darn "foreign menace" is good and all, but when you have things like right wing commentators spreading "hoax" rumors, idiot spring breakers taking the "party OR DIE!!!!" attitude, some states being super-resistant to even the concept of social distancing and so on, it gets kind of clear that our population has enough stupidity in it that shit was gonna get real regardless of what was done.

posted by QuakerOats

oh, ok

I already explained it.  Non-US residents/citizens only account for about 35-40% of the travel to and from China, which means that 60-65% of the people who normally could come to the US could still do so, and they're just a susceptible.

Now, given the fact that China lied about this and brushed it under the rug in the early stages, it's highly likely that it had already spread to other nations which also have a lot of international travel: namely the UK and Japan.  There's more travel from those countries than China.  Combined, they account for about three times as much total travel to the US than that which comes from China.

So, again, the ban only works on a notable level if two things are true:

(a) The virus was, at the time, contained in China, and
(b) The ban stopped the majority of travel from China to the US

Neither is true.  The virus had already left China, thanks to the Chinese government downplaying it.  And the majority of travel to and from China was still allowed to take place, because the majority of travel to and from China is from US citizens and residents.

And I'm not even taking into account any travel from any country other than the top three.  I'm also not taking into account the number of cases that might have already been here before the ban began (thank Winnie the Pooh for that one).

If we JUST look at the top three nations that travel to and from the US, banning ALL Chinese travel would account for only 25%.  And since we still allowed citizens and residents to pass through, we only banned 35-40% of that 25%.  That's 8.75% to 10% of the possible carriers from just the top three countries.  Add in the rest, and the number gets smaller.  Add in the number of cases that might already have been in the US and it gets smaller still.

But by all means, if the ban makes you feel good, then enjoy it, but it's feelings-based all the same.
 

posted by Heretic

I'd say that any help that could/should have done probably was mostly nullified by our overall stupidity, making it pretty much a non-player in the grand scheme of things. Taking steps to keep out that darn "foreign menace" is good and all, but when you have things like right wing commentators spreading "hoax" rumors, idiot spring breakers taking the "party OR DIE!!!!" attitude, some states being super-resistant to even the concept of social distancing and so on, it gets kind of clear that our population has enough stupidity in it that shit was gonna get real regardless of what was done.

Yep.  My neighbors on BOTH sides are still having social gatherings almost daily.

Just as well, while I'm as big a fan of distrust of government as there is, it doesn't mean I think it's okay to be an idiot.  I may disagree with government mandates, but that doesn't mean what's mandated isn't a good idea.

I think mandating seat belts or traffic speeds is bullshit, but I don't break those bullshit laws because the actions themselves are smart.

I've seen some Billy Badass wannabes intentionally avoiding social distancing because they think it somehow gives them some sort of tough guy cred, not knowing it actually just makes them look like a dipshit.

In summation, I think you're right.  People are stupid, and that stupidity negated what little effectiveness the ban might have otherwise had.

Has there been any backlash yet on all the singers that performed on Elton John's special last night?  I have to believe there's a few blue checkmarks outraged it was broadcast on Fox.

posted by gut

Has there been any backlash yet on all the singers that performed on Elton John's special last night?  I have to believe there's a few blue checkmarks outraged it was broadcast on Fox.

Man, I missed this.  The outrage should be glorious.

posted by O-Trap

I already explained it.  Non-US residents/citizens only account for about 35-40% of the travel to and from China, which means that 60-65% of the people who normally could come to the US could still do so, and they're just a susceptible.

Now, given the fact that China lied about this and brushed it under the rug in the early stages, it's highly likely that it had already spread to other nations which also have a lot of international travel: namely the UK and Japan.  There's more travel from those countries than China.  Combined, they account for about three times as much total travel to the US than that which comes from China.

So, again, the ban only works on a notable level if two things are true:

(a) The virus was, at the time, contained in China, and
(b) The ban stopped the majority of travel from China to the US

Neither is true.  The virus had already left China, thanks to the Chinese government downplaying it.  And the majority of travel to and from China was still allowed to take place, because the majority of travel to and from China is from US citizens and residents.

And I'm not even taking into account any travel from any country other than the top three.  I'm also not taking into account the number of cases that might have already been here before the ban began (thank Winnie the Pooh for that one).

If we JUST look at the top three nations that travel to and from the US, banning ALL Chinese travel would account for only 25%.  And since we still allowed citizens and residents to pass through, we only banned 35-40% of that 25%.  That's 8.75% to 10% of the possible carriers from just the top three countries.  Add in the rest, and the number gets smaller.  Add in the number of cases that might already have been in the US and it gets smaller still.

But by all means, if the ban makes you feel good, then enjoy it, but it's feelings-based all the same.

"Dr. Anthony Fauci: Travel Ban To China Absolutely Made A Difference"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/12/dr_anthony_fauci_travel_ban_to_china_absolutely_made_a_difference.html

Take care.

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators). 

TSC Apparel is making cotton masks with their Tultex brand.

posted by iclfan2

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators). 

A lot of "progressives" are getting mad at businesses and rich people for helping out.  This is why this thread exists.  How can anyone take them seriously?